Author Topic: Too Many People.  (Read 2795 times)

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Offline icrcc

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Too Many People.
« on: July 09, 2013, 10:10:39 AM »
For me the by far the biggest threat that exists in the world today is that there are far too many people. I chose this title rather than overpopulation because there are always those who state that we could easily support a world population of billions more. While this may well be technically true these mental midgets are forgetting a major component, the nature of the beast.

As a species man does not work in harmony with the rest of the animal kingdom. Ask the whales or the elephants who are being hunted to extinction. Better still ask a member of any one of the thousands of species that become extinct each year. Oh wait we are too late for that!

As a species man does not work in harmony with the environment. Even the most sceptical atmospheric scientists are agreed that there is rapid, by earth standards, climate change. The old catch phrase of “global warming” has been replaced by the new axiom “climate change”. Is this entirely a humanity driven issue?  Probably not but at the very least Homo sapiens are a contributing factor.

As a species man is gluttonous with natural resources. He does not just take what he needs. He takes everything then moves on to another location and repeats the process. This locust like behavior has lead to the demise of civilizations in the past and will undoubtedly be repeated in the future. We all know that oil will run out someday. Not millennia in the future but within decades. Do we react by conserving what we have and using less? No we increase production because of the perceived need. Don’t get me wrong I am as guilty as the next. At least I feel a tinge of guilty when I fill up my SUV but  I still do it.

As a species mans greatest downfall is that man does not get along with his fellow man. We never have and if history is any indicator of future behaviour he never will. Whether it is political beliefs, religious beliefs, competition for resources, corrupt practices or beliefs in a particular economic system we have deep-seated differences that all too often result in violence to seek a solution.

Some would argue that these differences point to the strength of the species. While in one sense this is true it is much more likely that it may lead to our demise.  At the very least it is and always has been a major factor in our progress as an intellectual species.

Enough of my thoughts what about yours? Do you think? Does the sheer number of Homo sapiens inhabiting the planet pose the greatest threat to mankind?
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Offline JustABear

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 11:35:31 AM »
Excellent post. For millions of years it has been species that adapted to the environment and to changes in the environment. Species rose and fell but always adapted. New ones developed and others went extinct. In thousands of years man has remained the same and changed the environment. In the process we have done nothing but destroy large swaths of this planet we call home as well as large numbers of other species we share with it. We are arrogant, ignorant and willfully blind to our effects. In the beginning the changes were small and driven by the ability to change our surroundings to enhance our ability to survive and thrive. At the present time the change is on a massive scale and is driven by the desire for material profit and ultimately has the exact opposite effect for the vast majority of the population. Yes, the planet CAN support more humans but ONLY in a controlled, industrial environment. Monsanto and the like uses the hoards as an excuse to sell their products due to efficiency of scale and production. When... not if... something in nature happens that destroys one of these artificial crop structures there will be a mass die off. Water is the next crisis for mankind. Already weather patterns are shifting. Increased wetness and dryness in areas previously excellent for agriculture will at best mean an alteration in viable crops and at the worst elimination of certain production from huge areas. As well it will also mean migration of predatory species who will follow the climate change and in time completely alter the natural plant and animal base. In North America there are already water diversion projects in place that affect the Great Lakes. In the Chicago area alone there is currently 561 billion gallons of water removed from Lake Michigan yearly and sent down the Mississippi river. This water will never return. The City Of Waukesha in Michigan is currently applying to implement another diversion that would remove 9 million gallons of water per day from Lake Michigan. Water is a finite resource and will be the next basis of conflict and outright war in the years to come.

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 12:50:48 PM »
Human populations like that of other creatures follows the path of least resistance. Energy has made the population explode over the last 100 years and energy's decline will have the opposite effect. Bio oils will have to take its place. I see desertification of once good land being a factor in population declines. The more chemical fertilizers we use, the worse the soil becomes.

Offline M590a1

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 01:13:15 PM »
Population growth tables clearly show unsustainable growth.  This is where Monsanto comes into play.

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The world is not dangerous because of those who do harm, but because of those who look on without doing anything.

Offline thecrownsown

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 01:27:46 PM »
A good read ICRCC.  But what you've listed are items that have some truth to them, but the conclusion I'm not so sure about.  Personally I have an entire different outlook.  I can't say I'm keen on 6 billion people in the world, but its based more on my "feeling" than anything else.

-Like every other living organism there is a bell curve of growth, cap and decline dependent on several factors including food, etc.  Nothing new, and yes eventually earths population increase will start to slow down.  This is grade 10 biology.  It's nothing scary or even bad/good...its simply an observation of our environment.  Humans are no different.  I think the biggest thing with "preppers" is that we believe the decrease in population will be a knee jerk reaction with mass death perhaps from an interuption in the existing infrastructure that feeds, houses, and takes care of us today....History has always shown (ie.-Roman empire, dark ages) more of a systematic decline.
-We have more forested areas now than 100 years ago.
-We produce more food per acre now than ever before.  Exponentially more than even 60 years ago.  With international trade and not buying locally famines, food shortages have decreased dramatically.  The falacy of things like "buying locally" are/were fads that took off with good intention but simply did not meet any expectations....environmentally or economically.
-Human standards of living, even in the poorest parts of the world are significantly better now than ever in the history of the world.  Overall we are living longer, living healthier, and living better.
-Last I read we have enough oil for more than a hundred years in reserves...not decades.  That being said the oil argument is almost moot.  The work I did at the UofG opened my eyes to the incredible amount of research and technology being implemented and developed to not only compliment oil, but also to surpass oil as a more efficient energy source.  The oil argument is an old one, and just because it doesn't make racy head lines every day, the science going into new technology is just mind boggling.
-The murder rate has dropped exponentially from 50 / 100 / 200 / 500 years ago.  so has crime, violent crime, and birth rates of the lowest economic class where most violent crimes comes from. (Abortion available for all)
-Climate Change is pretty much accepted by every scientist in the world.  The main cause is a different matter.  The earth itself goes through various cycles which create heating/cooling over hundreds of years without human input.  Are we getting warmer. yes. Is it happening overnight? no.  If it plays a roll in human population, it will be a slow down of population, and decrease perhaps....rioting in the streets, food shortages, etc. are simply stuff of good movies today...but nothing supports the hollywood version.

I think we are inundated with so much media today, so easily that we get all these headlines of crazy things going on that we throw our hands up and say "holy crap!"  I ponder if this is an underlying aspect of preppers, or plays at the very least some part in the common theme of preppers....  There have been people predicting great devastation for millenia.  And it will continue to happen.  People will read stuff on the internet, stuff they absorb readily (we all suffer from confirmation bias..it is what it is).  Whether there is any validity to it or not, we hype ourselves up.  Being prepared is awesome.  Its smart, and its prudent.  Obsessing about the unknown, predicting major catastrophe....I think is unhealthy. 

Now you'll have to excuse me.  Though I enjoy getting paid to sit on my bum here playing ont he computer I have to get back to work at my air conditioned desk before I hop into my F150 (more efficient and environmentally safer than even the worse car from 25 years ago!) drive to the grocery store where I have access to foods from around the world, purchase what I want, go home where I live in a house that the square footage is larger by comparison on average to any human generation before me...before I goto bed in clean sheets, clean clothes because basic infection control in our world has stiffled so many pandemics and then sleep a full 8 hours as our technology and efficiency as a human race has allowed me to sleep more and spend less time working.   Our world isnt' perfect, but we ain't teetering on the abyss either. 

don't get me wrong. We ain't perfect.  Far from it.  There is crime, corruption, and when we don't have control over the unknown there is a lot of fear.  But compared to any time in history, we are sitting fracking good! :)   That being said...I gotta get more food stores done....its keeping me up at night I don't have nearly enough mylar bags and o2 absorbers.. ;)

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Offline thecrownsown

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 01:30:28 PM »
Population growth tables clearly show unsustainable growth.  This is where Monsanto comes into play.

Not monsanto.  Its called basic biology.  lol.  Populations go up...and populations go down.  To think one company controls the fate of the population is a bit far reaching.

Monsanto...always with the monsanto on these prepper sites........even the most staunch Capitalist knows that company is bad news....but they arn't responsible for every evil in the world...  :P 
"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities and the smallest minority on earth is the individual."

Ayn Rand

Offline JustABear

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 02:10:54 PM »
Population growth tables clearly show unsustainable growth.  This is where Monsanto comes into play.

Not monsanto.  Its called basic biology.  lol.  Populations go up...and populations go down.  To think one company controls the fate of the population is a bit far reaching.

Monsanto...always with the monsanto on these prepper sites........even the most staunch Capitalist knows that company is bad news....but they arn't responsible for every evil in the world...  :P 
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Population growth tables clearly show unsustainable growth.  This is where Monsanto comes into play.

Not monsanto.  Its called basic biology.  lol.  Populations go up...and populations go down.  To think one company controls the fate of the population is a bit far reaching.

Monsanto...always with the monsanto on these prepper sites........even the most staunch Capitalist knows that company is bad news....but they arn't responsible for every evil in the world...  :P 

I think the reference to Monsanto is regarding the enhanced food production capability with engineered crops and chemicals. This allows for increased population where previously it was capped by the natural checks and balances of disease and crop failure. Now in those same areas they can grow much more grains with reduced losses and cycles. Again this allows for the increase in population. The down side is that they are open to the specter of catastrophic crop failure due to a potentially unseen disease or predator that develops immunity to the bio engineered plants and pesticides. Dependency on one crop.. or even one species of crop invites eventual failure.  Nature ALWAYS develops a way around what we create.

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Offline M590a1

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 03:52:23 PM »
Population growth tables clearly show unsustainable growth.  This is where Monsanto comes into play.

  If you see Monsanto as a good thing then you'd believe they were trying to do their best to feed the world.  If you see them as poisoners of the food chain then you'd believe they are about to starve the population.
If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 11:03:15 PM »
Look up glyphosate resistant pigweed. Nature trumps man. Sure they will come out with something else to combat the weeds, but what happens 'IF' something larger happens? I dont freak out about things but it is good to know what others are doing. Everything I do seems to be a hedge against what someone else is doing. Such as big government, big oil, environmentalists etc.

Whats your reason for prepping 'thecrownsown'? Seems that you are content with things and have no worries.

Offline icrcc

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 11:46:47 PM »
I like pigweed and often eat it as a substitute for Spinach. Tender amaranth leaves once cooked taste just like cooked spinach.
It may never happen. Best to be prepared just in case.

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 01:48:27 AM »
I heard that pigweed is pretty good. We have about an acre of the stuff this year since I moved a lot of earth around. The thing is that pigweed is encroaching on the cotton fields as well as other crops and that is not good.

Offline Greenguy

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Re: Too Many People.
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2013, 05:57:29 PM »
Population growth is pretty simple.  There's a whole lot of people out there having babies! 
And it's not the G7 nations either.  So, we're talking about mostly 3rd world countries.   And yes, those mouths need to be fed.  The Monsanto's of the world are for-profit organizations.  If you can't pay, you won't eat.
I know what you're thinking...
Wait a minute, we give aid to poor countries all the time!
Yes we do, but not without strings attached.  We insist they open their markets to foreign investment and trade, "manage" their banking system for them, and ultimately control their resources.  It's a pretty expensive bit of rice they're cooking.
The game ends when there's no more resources left to take over and control.  Then the teeth are going to come out and we'll see who gets to eat and who doesn't.