Author Topic: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down  (Read 5564 times)

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Offline zeker

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russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« on: November 24, 2015, 10:42:58 AM »
so turkey shoots down a russian jet. and then insurgents? shoot down a russian helo that was looking for the survivors..
 
and the 2 pilots parachuted out of their damaged jet.. only to be machinegunned while in the stirrups of the chutes.
 
putin ejects turkish ambassador. leave within 24 hrs.
 
turkey immediately calls nato conference.. even BEFORE notifying russia of the jet.
 
gas up folks.
 
someone has been buying ISIS oil, and I,m willing to bet that turkey wasnt the only one. even if it passed thru a few hands first.
 
 
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Offline zeker

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 10:58:56 AM »
watching rt english live https://www.rt.com/on-air/
 
very good reporting and several stories on at the same converage
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Offline icrcc

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 11:11:14 AM »
We shall see how this plays out.
It may never happen. Best to be prepared just in case.

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Offline Henry

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2015, 12:23:10 PM »
It just proves that if the news is really bad never say it can not get worse.
Henry

Offline zeker

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2015, 12:36:48 PM »
and I thot that when putin started bombing the oil convoys, it was making an impact, where USA was lacking.
 
this downing comes less than a week after russia destroyed so many oil trucks.
 
me thinks turkey is retaliating for the loss of the  oil. bad move against russia.
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Offline JustABear

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2015, 01:33:57 PM »
Turkey has outlived it's usefulness to the NATO alliance. It is politically, ideologically and culturally opposite to Western values. There was a time when it was needed as a bulwark between the USSR and Europe during the Cold War but this current conflict is coming down to a fight between Western nations and values and the Middle Eastern, Islamists. There is no way to win against this corrupt and poisoned ideology. The only recourse is to close borders and make these 'beliefs' illegal in Western Society. The only way anything is going to change or get better in any way is for Muslims themselves to take control of their religion and ACTIVELY resist those who would hijack it and use it for terrorist purposes. There is a culture of either neutrality or outright acceptance of the indoctrination and actions of the extremists and as long as they choose to do nothing they are all to blame, just as the average German in Nazi Germany accepted what the Nazi's did and were. This has to be fought from within the Muslim culture. It is NOT something that can be 'fixed' by the West externally. The ONLY thing we can do is try to protect ourselves from it's effects. Sadly, the Liberals seem to be on the side of the Jihadists.
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Offline zeker

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2015, 01:52:01 PM »
 NATO Backs Turkey's Version Of Events, Calls For "Calm & De-Escalation"Tyler Durden's pictureSubmitted by Tyler Durden on  11/24/2015 12:57 -0500

 
 
  Following the meeting of the North Atlantic Council requested by Turkey - to explain its actions - NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg will give a statement to the press, no doubt urging, just as Obama and Hollande just did, no escalation between the two nations.
  • *U.S., NATO OFFICIALS SAY RUSSIAN JET WAS IN TURKISH AIRSPACE:AP
  • *HOLLANDE: MUST PREVENT ANY ESCALATION BETWEEN RUSSIA, TURKEY
  • *OBAMA: RUSSIANS, TURKS MUST TALK TO EACH OTHER, NOT ESCALATE
And we were not wrong...
  • *STOLTENBERG SAYS 'THIS IS A SERIOUS SITUATION'
  • *STOLTENBERG SAYS NATO BACKS TURKEY'S VERSION OF TODAY'S EVENTS
Here is The Turkish map of the flight paths...

So we must de-escalate!!
  • *STOLTENBERG CALLS FOR 'CALM AND DE-ESCALATION'
  • *STOLTENBERG SAYS ALL MUST CONTRIBUTE TO DE-ESCALATION
  • *STOLTENBERG SAYS ISIL SHOULD BE COMMON ENEMY OF RUSSIA, WEST
..............  ................ .................................. .....................
 
IF russia was over that finger of land (which is less than 2 miles wide) which sticks down into syria, the jet was doing mach1??? at 6000meters high.
 
how long could have been in turkish airspace?
 
and the turks said they warned it 10 times?
 
they must be fast talkers.
 
turkey is no friend to the west.
 
russia is no friend to the west, but, sadly, I am more inclined to lean toward russia's depiction of the events, than I am of turkey.
 
I think putin will not outwardly attack erdagon. but he will arm the kurds and STOP the oil.
 
he can do major damage economically and turkey would have to get its economical life blood from its nato partners.
 
it is no shock that nato agrees with turkeys description of events.
 
to disagree would mean tossing a nato partner, to the wolves.
 
not that that hasnt happened b4.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 01:53:08 PM by zeker »
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Offline zeker

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fill up the jerry cans
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2015, 02:08:08 PM »
Russian Market ‏@russian_market  1 minHá 1 minuto
Wow..  Russian State TV reports on Turkey's profit from selling contraband oil from Syria to Norway, US, etc.$15 per barrel

 
 

something is not adding up about the shootdown..
 
the 'finger' is less than 2 miles wide.
 
turkey says russian plane was in their airspace for 17 seconds.
 
the above map with flight lines reveals that turkish airplane came from elsewhere in 17 seconds to shoot this down?
 
more likely a trap.
 
the turk did not come from 'elsewhere'..
 
he was there waiting.
 
no idea why this writing is so small now. sheesh
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Offline tazweiss

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 02:39:59 PM »
If my best friend decided to poke a Grizzly with a sharp stick.  I wouldn't hang around with my trusty pocket knife to help fight it off.  Turkey decided to poke the bear, let Turkey deal with it.  It's my understanding that NATO is meant for mutual defence, not mutual aggression.
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Offline zeker

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2015, 02:50:29 PM »
Russian Su-24 - serious consequences - Putin P423 "US-Turkish Military Operation in N Syria Would be de Facto an Invasion"

Source: sputniknews.com

omg! what is going on?!
Quoting:

Basically Russia is saying they now have a no fly and no action zone in Syria and will respond militarily to any military action from anyone not coordinating with them
 

 the war of words is beginning.
 
but putin  is a man of action.
deliberate.
well thought out  action.
 
maybe not today
 
maybe not tomorrow..
 
 but.. wait :o
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Offline zeker

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2015, 03:05:12 PM »
today aint a good day to quit drinking. :-\
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Offline tellab

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2015, 04:38:25 PM »
Zeker I may not always agree with your point of view but I definitely agree with your last comment.   :D

Offline zeker

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Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2015, 05:29:15 PM »
tellab.. sometimes even 'I' dont agree with my point of veiw.
 
it is, what it is.
I wrestle dragons daily.
 
some days you get the dragon.
 
some daze it gets you ::)
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Offline zeker

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Rit gets tricky
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2015, 06:18:51 PM »
US-TurkishMilitary Operation in NSyria Would be deFacto an Invasion©            AFP 2015/ ILYAS  AKENGIN Politics20:10 24.11.2015(updated  00:10 25.11.2015) Get short URL117467632The US and Turkey have  announced an operation aimed at maintaining control over the last 98 kilometers  of the Turkish-Syrian border, between Jarabulus and Afrin; this area overlaps  with the primary corridor through which Islamists, including ISIL and al-Nusra  receive weapons and fighters, Tony Cartalucci underscores.In contrast to its vows to "defeat ISIL," the actions of the US-led  anti-ISIL coalition demonstrate a desire to preserve the terrorist group,  Bangkok-based geopolitical analyst Tony Cartalucci notes.
"Its [NATO's] feigned 'war on ISIS' helped open  the door to the recent Russian military intervention. With Russia's entry  into the war, the West can no longer afford to drag out its  nonexistent operations against ISIS [ISIL], hoping for an opportunity  to finally divide and destroy the country," Cartalucci writes in his  recent piece for New Eastern Outlook.
A man (C) identified in the subtitiles as Al Karar the Iraqi gestures as he speaks at an undisclosed location in this image taken from undated video footage released by Islamic State. Islamic State warned in the new video on November 16, 2015 that countries taking part in air strikes against Syria would suffer the same fate as France, and threatened to attack in Washington©            REUTERS/ Social Media Website via  ReutersSiding  With ISIL? Turkey Spotted Dealing With Radical Islamists in  SyriaMeanwhile, Russia and the Syrian Arab Army have almost  sealed up the corridor themselves. In its turn NATO is at pains  to implement a partial occupation of Syria. According to the  analyst, the race is nearly over now.
Cartalucci points out that the terrorist attack in Paris has given  NATO a "strong hand" and will most likely help the US and Turkey justify their  upcoming military operation in northern Syria.
However, "the fact that the US and Turkey are seeking to secure Turkey's  border with Syria from the Syrian side instead of within NATO  territory itself, reveals the true nature of this unfolding conflict," the  analyst remarks, adding that the operation will be de facto an invasion  of Syria by NATO.
Western officials insist that the operation would cut off one  of ISIL's lifelines. Surprisingly, for a few years they remained  suspiciously silent on the flow of arms, fighters and money which have  been flowing to the Islamic State through Turkey.
"All of the Paris attackers, likewise, passed  through Turkey on their way to train, arm, and fight  in Syria, and then through Turkey again on their way back  to Europe. The tons of weapons and hundreds of fighters shipped  covertly to Syria by the US in the Libyan terrorist capital  of Benghazi also arrived first in Turkish ports before proceeding  on, apparently with the knowledge and cooperation of the Turkish  government," Cartalucci stresses.
A man works on cauldron in the Rmeilane oil field in Syria's northern eastern Hasakeh province on July 15, 2015©            AFP 2015/ YOUSSEF KARWASHAN Mysterious  Middleman: Who is Buying ISIL's Crude and Dropping Oil Prices?In  this light, if one really wants to cut off ISIL's lifelines, he should  start doing this in Turkey, the analyst suggests.
Much in the same manner Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Gulf realms have  been supporting and funding terrorism in Syria and Iraq since the very  beginning of the Syrian war. The Gulf States also constitute the "source"  of ISIL, Cartalucci points out.
However, none of these states were sanctioned for their illicit  activities. Instead, major Western powers were concluding lucrative weapons  deals with the Gulf monarchies.
Fighters from the Al-Nusra Front, Al-Qaeda's Syria branch, hold a position as they fight against forces loyal to the regime©            AFP 2015/  Fadi al-HalabiWestern  Gov'ts Create 'Perfect Climate' for Terror by Funding  Extremists"Fighting ISIS [ISIL] at its source, for the  West, means putting the blade to its own throat," the analyst stresses.
According to Cartalucci, Western governments are "clearly responsible"  for the rise of the Islamic State. The notorious Islamist group has  emerged not just as a mere consequence of the West's action or  inaction: the group has been created though the intentional effort of the  Western political establishment. Western policymakers plan to use Islamists  as a "formidable proxy army" in the Middle East, North Africa and  beyond, Cartalucci believes.
"ISIS [ISIL] is not only destined to divide and  destroy Syria and Iraq. If the West has its way, the terrorist organization is  destined to move into Iran, the Caucasus region of southern  Russia, and Central Asia next," he predicts.
The idea to create an Islamist army is not a new one, Cartalucci  remarks, referring to the US-Saudi collaboration with Islamic radicals  in Afghanistan in the 1980s and British Empire's use of Wahhabi  fanatics in its war against the Ottoman Empire over a century  ago.
"When the West calls this a 'long war,' they mean it.  And it will be longer still until the people of the West realize their  governments aren't waging a 'War on Terror,' they are waging a 'War  of Terror'," the geopolitical analyst  emphasizes

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151124/1030683556/us-turkish-military-invasion-syria.html#ixzz3sSBtOA7H
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Offline zeker

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the truth is sneaking out
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2015, 03:41:30 AM »
20<blockquote>Russian envoy: Ankara forced NATO to excuse the downing of Russian Su-24

ITAR-TASS
November 25, 2:15 updated at: November 25, 4:15 UTC+3


Alexander Grushko commented on the results of a session of the NATO Council convened on Tuesday upon Turkey’s initiative


BRUSSELS, November 24//TASS/. Sheltering itself behind NATO solidarity, Ankara forced the Alliance to justify the downing of a Russian Su-24 warplane, Russia’s NATO Ambassador Alexander Grushko said on Tuesday commenting on the results of a meeting of the NATO Council convened at the Turkish initiative in connection with the Turkey’s attack on the Russian plane.

"Today’s meeting of the NATO Council could have become the moment of truth for the Alliance, as one of its key allies shot down a Russian plane taking part in an international effort to fight terrorism. However, the moment of truth failed to happen," Grushko said.

"The statement of the NATO secretary general has not a scintilla of denunciation of a Turkish attack on a Russian warplane that posed no threat for Turkey’s security and was flying in the airspace of Syria," Russia’s NATO ambassador said.

"No words of sympathy or regret in connection with the death of Russian pilots on a duty in fight against terrorism were said. However, it once again pointed to allegedly dangerous military activity of the Russian Aerospace Troops," he added.

"In essence, Ankara has achieved its aim - sheltering itself behind the proverbial allied solidarity, it forced the Alliance into excusing its illegal action, which not only undermines common effort in fight against Islamic State /banned in Russia/, but has also created risks for security of the countries under allied obligations with Turkey," he continued.

"This has once again confirmed that NATO is guided not by principles that its representatives are so fond of speculating about, but by those of political expedience. And this fact can hardly be disguised under outwardly politically correct appeals to ‘composure and de-escalation’," the NATO ambassador said.

"This ‘shadow play’ looks especially strange against the background of the recently passed resolution 2249 of the UN Security Council which directly commits the states to fight against the threat of terrorism by all means," Grushko said in comments on the results of the meeting.

"As for appeals to greater transparency and predictability in military activity of Russia and NATO, they remain undecided. It was the NATO decision to break off military contacts, and it is doing nothing in practice to restore them," he added.

A Sukhoi Su-24 bomber of Russia’s Aerospace Forces was on Tuesday downed by an air-to-air missile fired by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet when the Russian plane was at an altitude of 6,000 meters 1 kilometer away from Turkey’s border.

The Russian Defense Ministry specified that the Su-24 was downed when it was returning to the Khmeimim airbase in Syria.

"Objective control data analysis unambiguously showed that there was no violation of Turkey’s airspace," the ministry said. However, Turkey’s General Staff claims that the Turkish fighter jet shot down a plane that violated the country’s airspace. A statement circulated by the Turkish military says the plane’s crew received 10 warnings for five minutes.

NATO has supported Turkey, saying it has the right to protect its territory, but urged all necessary moves to avoid confrontation over the accident.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Ankara’s attack against the Russian Sukhoi Su-24 plane, which took part in Russia’s antiterrorism operation in Syria and did not present a threat to Turkey, was a "stab in Russia’s back" delivered by terrorists’ accomplices.

Russia’s Aerospace Forces started delivering pinpoint strikes in Syria at facilities of the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra terrorist organizations, which are banned in Russia, on September 30, 2015, on a request from Syrian President Bashar Assad.</blockquote>
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Offline zeker

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another 'truth' or excuse
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 03:49:03 AM »
17 Seconds That Changed The World - Leaked Letter
Exposes Turkey's Hair-Trigger Reality

Submitted by Tyler Durden on  11/24/2015 22:00 -0500
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...rigger-reality
 
  Needless to say, Moscow and Ankara are at odds  over precisely what
happened on Tuesday when a Russian Su-24 was shot  down near
 the Syrian border.

 The two pilots ejected and attempted to parachute to safety but
 Turkmen FSA-allied Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen shot at them as they
fell  before posting a video purporting to show rebel soldiers celebrating 
over one of the bodies.

It only got worse from there when the FSA's 1st  Coastal Brigade used
a US-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and  rescue helicopter.

 Clearly, this was a marked escalation and indeed it was the first time
 a NATO member had engaged a Russian or Soviet warplane
 in more than 60 years.

 The Kremlin was not happy as Vladimir Putin - who was meeting with
King Abdullah in Jordan - proceeded to brand Erdogan a “backstabber”
and an ISIS supporter. Sergei Lavrov subsequently canceled a planned
trip to Turkey.

 At issue now, is whether the Russian fighter jet did indeed, as  Turkey
claims, venture into Turkish airspace or whether the Turks  actually
engaged Moscow’s warplane in the skies over Syria.

Here's Russia's version of the story, presented via a video released by
the Defense Ministry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cs8jdJKSGo



And here's Turkey's account:


Finally, here's The New York Times with a compare and constrast visual:



In the wake of an emergency NATO meeting this afternoon,
new  information has come to light. First, there’s Ankara’s letter to UN 
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the 15 members of the UN Security 
Council.
Here it is:


The highlighted passage reads: “Disregarding these warnings,
both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national
airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length
 for 17 seconds
from 9:24:05 local time."

 So, as RT notes,  even if we buy Turkey's story (i.e. if we accept
that Russia actually  did violate Turkish airspace), then it would appear
 that Ankara has  something of an itchy trigger finger.

That is, Turkey was apparently willing to risk sparking a wider
conflict between NATO and Russia over a 17 second incursion.

But something doesn't sound right. 
   In other words, as Sputnik put it earlier this evening, "according to
those numbers, the Su-24 would have had to be flying at stall
speed.
" The Su-24's max speed is 1,320 km/hour.

  So if we assume the Su-24 was actually going much faster,
 was 17 seconds more like 5 seconds? Or perhaps even less?

 It's important not to forget the context here. Ankara is fiercly  anti-Assad
and in addition to being generally displeased with Russia's  efforts
to support the regime, just four days ago, Turkey summoned  Russian
ambassador Andrey Karlov over the alleged bombing of Turkish  villages
near the border. "Turkey has asked Russia to 'immediately end  its
operation,'"

AFP reported, adding that "Ankara warned bombing villages populated
by the Turkmen minority in Syria could lead to 'serious consequences.'"

  Of course Russia wasn't just bombing Turkish civilians for the sheer
 hell of it. It's likely Moscow was targeting the very same
FSA-affiliated
Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who shot and killed
the parachuting Russian pilot earlier today.

 In short, it looks like Ankara saw an opportunity to shoot down a  Russian
jet in retaliation for strikes on Turkish rebel fighters who are  operating
alongside anti-Assad forces. Erdogan is essentially gambling  that Russia
will not retailiate militarily against Turkey because doing  so would open
the door for a direct confrontation with NATO.

 Time will tell whether that gamble pays off or whether Moscow decides 
that the next time a Turkish F-16 gets "lost" over Latakia, a little  payback
is in order.
</blockquote>
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Offline zeker

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and now this
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 03:59:43 AM »
I am posting many articles so that, somewhere in there, we can decypher the truth.. if its there..
 
Russia “Violated” Turkish Airspace
Because Turkey “Moved” Its Border

By SyrianFreePress
 Global Research, November 24, 2015
http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-...border/5480430SyrianFreePress 6 October 2015<blockquote>    Region: Middle East & North Africa
 Theme: US NATO War Agenda
 In-depth Report: SYRIA: NATO'S NEXT WAR?</blockquote>
This article originally published on October 7, 2015 is of utmost  relevance
in understanding the action taken by Turkey to down a Russian  jet fighter
over Syria airspace. (GR. Editor. M. Ch.)


 One Russian plane may  even indeed have slightly crossed the border [in October]
while  maneuvering. But the real reason why the U.S. military official and  Turkey
claim the above “violations” is because Turkey unilaterally  “moved” the
Turkish-Syrian border five miles south:<blockquote>Turkey has  maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June
2012, when a  Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane
that had  strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement
put in  effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming 
within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.

</blockquote>If Syrian rules of engagement would “move” its northern border up to  the Black Sea
would any plane in eastern Turkey be in violation of  Syrian air space? No one would
accept such nonsense and that is why no  one should accept the U.S.-Turkish bullshit
here. Russian planes should  not respect the “new” Turkish defined border but only
the legitimate  one…




Russia “Violated” Turkish Airspace Because Turkey
“Moved” Its Border


 Russian planes in Syria “violated Turkish air space” the news agency  currently tell us.
But an earlier report shows that this claim may well  be wrong and that the U.S.
pushes Turkey to release such propaganda.

Reuters (Mon Oct 5, 2015 7:54am BST):
Turkey says Russian warplane violated its airspace
<blockquote>A Russian warplane  violated Turkish airspace near the Syrian border
on Saturday, prompting  the Air Force to scramble two F-16 jets
 to intercept it, the Foreign  Ministry said on Monday.
The Foreign Ministry summoned Moscow’s  ambassador to protest
 the violation, according to an e-mailed statement.  Turkey urged
 Russia to avoid repeating such a violation, or it would be  held
“responsible for any undesired incident that may occur.”
</blockquote>AFP (10:20am · 5 Oct 2015):
Turkey ‘intercepts’ Russian jet violating its air space
<blockquote>Turkey said on  Monday its F-16 jets had at the weekend intercepted
 a Russian fighter  plane which violated Turkish air space near
 the Syrian border, forcing  the aircraft to turn back.

</blockquote>Here now what McClatchy reported on these air space violations in a longer
piece several hours before Reuters and AFP reported the Turkish claim:<blockquote>ISTANBUL – A Russian warplane on a bombing run in Syria flew within
 five miles of the Turkish border and may have crossed
into Turkey’s
air space, Turkish and U.S. officials said Sunday.

A Turkish security official said Turkish radar locked onto the Russian 
aircraft as it was bombing early Friday in al Yamdiyyah, a Syrian  village
directly on the Turkish border. He said Turkish fighter jets  would have
attacked had it crossed into Turkish airspace.But a U.S. military official
suggested the incident had come close to sparking an armed
confrontation.

Reading from a report, he said the Russian aircraft had violated
Turkish air space by five miles
  and that Turkish jets had scrambled,
but that the Russian aircraft had  returned to Syrian airspace before
they could respond.The Turkish  security official said he could not
 confirm
that account.
</blockquote>So it is the U.S., not Turkey, which was first pushing the claims
 of  air space violation
and of scrambling fighters. The Turkish source
would  not confirm that.

 But how could it be a real air space violation when Russian planes
“flew within five miles of the Turkish border and may have crossed
into  Turkey’s air space”.

The Russian planes were flying in Syrian airspace.


 They “may have crossed” is like saying that the earth “may be flat”.

Well maybe it is, right?

 Fact is the Russians fly very near to the border and bomb position of  some anti-Syrian
fighters Turkey supports. They have good reasons to do  so:<blockquote>The town, in a mountainous region of northern Latakia  province, has been
a prime route for smuggling people and goods between  Turkey and Syria
and reportedly has functioned as a key entry for  weapons shipped to
Syrian rebels by the U.S.-led Friends of Syria group  of Western and Middle
Eastern countries.
</blockquote>One Russian plane may  even indeed have slightly crossed the border while
maneuvering. But the  real reason why the U.S. military official and Turkey claim
 the above  “violations” is because Turkey unilaterally “moved” the Turkish-Syrian 
border five miles south:
<blockquote>Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria  since
June 2012
, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish  fighter
plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules  of
engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any
target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy

and act accordingly.

</blockquote>If Syrian rules of engagement would “move” its northern border up to  the Black Sea
would any plane in eastern Turkey be in violation of  Syrian air space? No one would
accept such nonsense and that is why no  one should accept the U.S.-Turkish bullshit
here. Russian planes should  not respect the “new” Turkish defined border but only
the legitimate  one.

 It would also be no good reason to start a NATO-Russia war just  because such a plane
might at times slightly intrude on the Turkish side  due to an emergency or other
accidental circumstances. Do we have to  mention that the U.S., France, Britain and
Jordan regularly violate  Syrian airspace for their pretended ISIS bombing?

That Turkey is bombing  the PKK in north Iraq without the permission of the Iraqi
government?  What about Israels regular air space violations over Lebanon?

 But what is this all really about? Germany, the Netherlands and the  U.S. stationed
some Patriot air defense systems in Turkey to defend  Turkey and its Islamist storm
troops in north-Syria. These systems were  announced to leave or have already left.

Are these claims about  air-space violation now an attempt to get these systems
 back into  Turkey? For what real purpose?

Notes:

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/10...ts-border.html


The original source of this article is SyrianFreePress
 Copyright © SyrianFreePress, SyrianFreePress, 2015
of all the things I,ve lost.. I miss my mind, the most

Offline zeker

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nato rules of engagement
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 04:38:07 AM »
Rules for the Engagement of Unidentified Hostile or Suspected Hostile Aircraft by Allied Fighters in the Supreme HQ Allied Powers Europe's Area of Responsibility During Peacetime

[link to archives.nato.int]

Nato's RoE

1) YOU MUST VISUALLY INTERCEPT THE AIRCRAFT AND HAVE VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE PILOT.

2) IF THE AIRCRAFT IS ON AN EXIT COURSE OF AN EXTREMELY NARROW BAND OF AIRSPACE, INTERCEPTION IS UNCALLED FOR.

3) AT THE HALFWAY POINT, AN AIRCRAFT ENCROACHING UPON AIRSPACE IF ON AN EXIT COURSE, HAS COMPLIED WITH WARNINGS AND ORDERS AND CANNOT BE FIRED UPON.

4)THE MINUTE THE AIRCRAFT IS OUT OF YOUR AIRSPACE, IT CANNOT BE FIRED UPON AND YOU MUST TURN AROUND AND GO HOME.

5) IF YOU KNOW THE PURPOSE OF AN AIRCRAFT OPERATING CLOSE TO THE BORDER, ACCIDENTAL ENCROACHMENT IS ALLOWED AND NECESSITATES NO SCRAMBLE OR INTERCEPTION, UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT IS ON A PATH INTO YOUR COUNTRY WITH NO DEFINED EXIT POINT. IF THE AIRCRAFT IS MILITARY AND CLEARLY ARMED, AN AIRBORNE SENTRY CONSISTING OF AN INTERCEPTION SQUADRON IS ENCOURAGED TO FLY A HOLDING PATTERN ALONG THE BORDER FOR QUICK TURNAROUND.

6) DO NOT FIRE UPON AN AIRCRAFT THAT IS LEAVING OR HAS LEFT AIRSPACE. IT IS AN ACT OF WAR THAT BARS YOU FROM INCITING ARTICLE 5, AS NATO IS A DEFENSIVE MILITARY ORGANIZATION AND ARTICLE 5 ONLY COVERS A NATION ATTACKING A NATO COUNTRY WITHOUT DIRECT PROVOCATION OF THAT COUNTRY, OR AN OBJECTIVE ACT OF WAR AGAINST YOUR NOW PRESENT AGGRESSOR.


 
 
number 6 seems to be particularly important
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 04:39:08 AM by zeker »
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Offline zeker

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trudeau stopped cdn plANES.. GOOD THING especially now
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2015, 04:57:44 AM »
in light of yesterday, I would think that any country that is backing turkey.. is getting the 'war plan look over' from russia.
 
war does not necessarily mean bombs.
 
how far will nato go to protect their red headed stepchild?
 
sadly.. probably all the way.
 
this was an obvious vengeful act by turkey.. if not a complete setup.. a trap.
 
makes one wonder what putin said behind closed doors at the last g20 meeting, last week.
 
he mentioned that russia knew who was supporting financialy, isis and that many were of the g20 countrys.
 
turkey's kneejerk reaction, just put ALL nato members on a major shitlist with russia.
 
we will see russia stopping almost everything to do with turkey..
 
oil.. gas.. pipelines. etc. already there are reports of meat suppliers being denied the russian market.
 
putin will turn the screws.. slowly and invisibly..
 
expect the kurds to be getting new toys for christmas.,
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Offline zeker

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moderates
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2015, 05:03:43 AM »
RT ‏@RT_com  · 5 min.
MORE: One on board was wounded when parachuted down & killed in savage way on ground by jihadists-Russian ambassador  [
link to on.rt.com]
 
these are the moderates that obama et all, are supporting.
 
now why is this red?
of all the things I,ve lost.. I miss my mind, the most