CanAmPreppers

SHTF Threats & Thoughts => Global Political => Topic started by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 10:42:58 AM

Title: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 10:42:58 AM
so turkey shoots down a russian jet. and then insurgents? shoot down a russian helo that was looking for the survivors..
 
and the 2 pilots parachuted out of their damaged jet.. only to be machinegunned while in the stirrups of the chutes.
 
putin ejects turkish ambassador. leave within 24 hrs.
 
turkey immediately calls nato conference.. even BEFORE notifying russia of the jet.
 
gas up folks.
 
someone has been buying ISIS oil, and I,m willing to bet that turkey wasnt the only one. even if it passed thru a few hands first.
 
 
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 10:58:56 AM
watching rt english live https://www.rt.com/on-air/ (https://www.rt.com/on-air/)
 
very good reporting and several stories on at the same converage
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: icrcc on November 24, 2015, 11:11:14 AM
We shall see how this plays out.
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: Henry on November 24, 2015, 12:23:10 PM
It just proves that if the news is really bad never say it can not get worse.
Henry
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 12:36:48 PM
and I thot that when putin started bombing the oil convoys, it was making an impact, where USA was lacking.
 
this downing comes less than a week after russia destroyed so many oil trucks.
 
me thinks turkey is retaliating for the loss of the  oil. bad move against russia.
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: JustABear on November 24, 2015, 01:33:57 PM
Turkey has outlived it's usefulness to the NATO alliance. It is politically, ideologically and culturally opposite to Western values. There was a time when it was needed as a bulwark between the USSR and Europe during the Cold War but this current conflict is coming down to a fight between Western nations and values and the Middle Eastern, Islamists. There is no way to win against this corrupt and poisoned ideology. The only recourse is to close borders and make these 'beliefs' illegal in Western Society. The only way anything is going to change or get better in any way is for Muslims themselves to take control of their religion and ACTIVELY resist those who would hijack it and use it for terrorist purposes. There is a culture of either neutrality or outright acceptance of the indoctrination and actions of the extremists and as long as they choose to do nothing they are all to blame, just as the average German in Nazi Germany accepted what the Nazi's did and were. This has to be fought from within the Muslim culture. It is NOT something that can be 'fixed' by the West externally. The ONLY thing we can do is try to protect ourselves from it's effects. Sadly, the Liberals seem to be on the side of the Jihadists.
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 01:52:01 PM
 NATO Backs Turkey's Version Of Events, Calls For "Calm & De-Escalation"(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg) (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden)Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on  11/24/2015 12:57 -0500

 
 
  Following the meeting of the North Atlantic Council requested by Turkey - to explain its actions - NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg will give a statement to the press, no doubt urging, just as Obama and Hollande just did, no escalation between the two nations.
And we were not wrong...Here is The Turkish map of the flight paths...
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/11-overflow/20151124_nato1_0.jpg) (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/11-overflow/20151124_nato1.jpg)
So we must de-escalate!!..............  ................ .................................. .....................
 
IF russia was over that finger of land (which is less than 2 miles wide) which sticks down into syria, the jet was doing mach1??? at 6000meters high.
 
how long could have been in turkish airspace?
 
and the turks said they warned it 10 times?
 
they must be fast talkers.
 
turkey is no friend to the west.
 
russia is no friend to the west, but, sadly, I am more inclined to lean toward russia's depiction of the events, than I am of turkey.
 
I think putin will not outwardly attack erdagon. but he will arm the kurds and STOP the oil.
 
he can do major damage economically and turkey would have to get its economical life blood from its nato partners.
 
it is no shock that nato agrees with turkeys description of events.
 
to disagree would mean tossing a nato partner, to the wolves.
 
not that that hasnt happened b4.
Title: fill up the jerry cans
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
Russian Market ‏@russian_market  1 minHá 1 minuto
Wow..  Russian State TV reports on Turkey's profit from selling contraband oil from Syria to Norway, US, etc.$15 per barrel

 
 

something is not adding up about the shootdown..
 
the 'finger' is less than 2 miles wide.
 
turkey says russian plane was in their airspace for 17 seconds.
 
the above map with flight lines reveals that turkish airplane came from elsewhere in 17 seconds to shoot this down?
 
more likely a trap.
 
the turk did not come from 'elsewhere'..
 
he was there waiting.
 
no idea why this writing is so small now. sheesh
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: tazweiss on November 24, 2015, 02:39:59 PM
If my best friend decided to poke a Grizzly with a sharp stick.  I wouldn't hang around with my trusty pocket knife to help fight it off.  Turkey decided to poke the bear, let Turkey deal with it.  It's my understanding that NATO is meant for mutual defence, not mutual aggression.
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 02:50:29 PM
Russian Su-24 - serious consequences - Putin P423 "US-Turkish Military Operation in N Syria Would be de Facto an Invasion"

Source: sputniknews.com

omg! what is going on?!
Quoting:

Basically Russia is saying they now have a no fly and no action zone in Syria and will respond militarily to any military action from anyone not coordinating with them
 

 the war of words is beginning.
 
but putin  is a man of action.
deliberate.
well thought out  action.
 
maybe not today
 
maybe not tomorrow..
 
 but.. wait :o
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
today aint a good day to quit drinking. :-\
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: tellab on November 24, 2015, 04:38:25 PM
Zeker I may not always agree with your point of view but I definitely agree with your last comment.   :D
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 05:29:15 PM
tellab.. sometimes even 'I' dont agree with my point of veiw.
 
it is, what it is.
I wrestle dragons daily.
 
some days you get the dragon.
 
some daze it gets you ::)
Title: Rit gets tricky
Post by: zeker on November 24, 2015, 06:18:51 PM
US-TurkishMilitary Operation in NSyria Would be deFacto an Invasion©            AFP 2015/ ILYAS  AKENGIN Politics (http://sputniknews.com/politics/)20:10 24.11.2015(updated  00:10 25.11.2015) Get short URL11 (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151124/1030683556/us-turkish-military-invasion-syria.html#comments)7467632The US and Turkey have  announced an operation aimed at maintaining control over the last 98 kilometers  of the Turkish-Syrian border, between Jarabulus and Afrin; this area overlaps  with the primary corridor through which Islamists, including ISIL and al-Nusra  receive weapons and fighters, Tony Cartalucci underscores.In contrast to its vows to "defeat ISIL," the actions of the US-led  anti-ISIL coalition demonstrate a desire to preserve the terrorist group,  Bangkok-based geopolitical analyst Tony Cartalucci notes.
"Its [NATO's] feigned 'war on ISIS' helped open  the door to the recent Russian military intervention. With Russia's entry  into the war, the West can no longer afford to drag out its  nonexistent operations against ISIS [ISIL], hoping for an opportunity  to finally divide and destroy the country," Cartalucci writes in his  recent piece for New Eastern Outlook.
(http://cdn3.img.sputniknews.com/images/103020/61/1030206194.jpg)©            REUTERS/ Social Media Website via  ReutersSiding  With ISIL? Turkey Spotted Dealing With Radical Islamists in  Syria (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151124/1030667934/turkey-funding-arming-isil-alqaeda-oil-smuggling.html)Meanwhile, Russia and the Syrian Arab Army have almost  sealed up the corridor themselves. In its turn NATO is at pains  to implement a partial occupation of Syria. According to the  analyst, the race is nearly over now.
Cartalucci points out that the terrorist attack in Paris has given  NATO a "strong hand" and will most likely help the US and Turkey justify their  upcoming military operation in northern Syria.
However, "the fact that the US and Turkey are seeking to secure Turkey's  border with Syria from the Syrian side instead of within NATO  territory itself, reveals the true nature of this unfolding conflict," the  analyst remarks, adding that the operation will be de facto an invasion  of Syria by NATO.
Western officials insist that the operation would cut off one  of ISIL's lifelines. Surprisingly, for a few years they remained  suspiciously silent on the flow of arms, fighters and money which have  been flowing to the Islamic State through Turkey.
"All of the Paris attackers, likewise, passed  through Turkey on their way to train, arm, and fight  in Syria, and then through Turkey again on their way back  to Europe. The tons of weapons and hundreds of fighters shipped  covertly to Syria by the US in the Libyan terrorist capital  of Benghazi also arrived first in Turkish ports before proceeding  on, apparently with the knowledge and cooperation of the Turkish  government," Cartalucci stresses.
(http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/103049/65/1030496596.jpg)©            AFP 2015/ YOUSSEF KARWASHAN Mysterious  Middleman: Who is Buying ISIL's Crude and Dropping Oil Prices? (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151121/1030496009/mysterious-middleman-buys-isil-oil-drops-oil-prices.html)In  this light, if one really wants to cut off ISIL's lifelines, he should  start doing this in Turkey, the analyst suggests.
Much in the same manner Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other Gulf realms have  been supporting and funding terrorism in Syria and Iraq since the very  beginning of the Syrian war. The Gulf States also constitute the "source"  of ISIL, Cartalucci points out.
However, none of these states were sanctioned for their illicit  activities. Instead, major Western powers were concluding lucrative weapons  deals with the Gulf monarchies.
(http://cdn5.img.sputniknews.com/images/101667/15/1016671521.jpg)©            AFP 2015/  Fadi al-HalabiWestern  Gov'ts Create 'Perfect Climate' for Terror by Funding  Extremists (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151123/1030598158/western-governments-terrorism-syria-isil-alqaeda.html)"Fighting ISIS [ISIL] at its source, for the  West, means putting the blade to its own throat," the analyst stresses.
According to Cartalucci, Western governments are "clearly responsible"  for the rise of the Islamic State. The notorious Islamist group has  emerged not just as a mere consequence of the West's action or  inaction: the group has been created though the intentional effort of the  Western political establishment. Western policymakers plan to use Islamists  as a "formidable proxy army" in the Middle East, North Africa and  beyond, Cartalucci believes.
"ISIS [ISIL] is not only destined to divide and  destroy Syria and Iraq. If the West has its way, the terrorist organization is  destined to move into Iran, the Caucasus region of southern  Russia, and Central Asia next," he predicts.
The idea to create an Islamist army is not a new one, Cartalucci  remarks, referring to the US-Saudi collaboration with Islamic radicals  in Afghanistan in the 1980s and British Empire's use of Wahhabi  fanatics in its war against the Ottoman Empire over a century  ago.
"When the West calls this a 'long war,' they mean it.  And it will be longer still until the people of the West realize their  governments aren't waging a 'War on Terror,' they are waging a 'War  of Terror'," the geopolitical analyst  emphasizes

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151124/1030683556/us-turkish-military-invasion-syria.html#ixzz3sSBtOA7H (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151124/1030683556/us-turkish-military-invasion-syria.html#ixzz3sSBtOA7H)
Title: the truth is sneaking out
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 03:41:30 AM
(http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/images/icons/icon20a.gif)<blockquote>Russian envoy: Ankara forced NATO to excuse the downing of Russian Su-24 (http://tass.ru/en/politics/839004)

ITAR-TASS
November 25, 2:15 updated at: November 25, 4:15 UTC+3


Alexander Grushko commented on the results of a session of the NATO Council convened on Tuesday upon Turkey’s initiative


BRUSSELS, November 24//TASS/. Sheltering itself behind NATO solidarity, Ankara forced the Alliance to justify the downing of a Russian Su-24 warplane, Russia’s NATO Ambassador Alexander Grushko said on Tuesday commenting on the results of a meeting of the NATO Council convened at the Turkish initiative in connection with the Turkey’s attack on the Russian plane.

"Today’s meeting of the NATO Council could have become the moment of truth for the Alliance, as one of its key allies shot down a Russian plane taking part in an international effort to fight terrorism. However, the moment of truth failed to happen," Grushko said.

"The statement of the NATO secretary general has not a scintilla of denunciation of a Turkish attack on a Russian warplane that posed no threat for Turkey’s security and was flying in the airspace of Syria," Russia’s NATO ambassador said.

"No words of sympathy or regret in connection with the death of Russian pilots on a duty in fight against terrorism were said. However, it once again pointed to allegedly dangerous military activity of the Russian Aerospace Troops," he added.

"In essence, Ankara has achieved its aim - sheltering itself behind the proverbial allied solidarity, it forced the Alliance into excusing its illegal action, which not only undermines common effort in fight against Islamic State /banned in Russia/, but has also created risks for security of the countries under allied obligations with Turkey," he continued.

"This has once again confirmed that NATO is guided not by principles that its representatives are so fond of speculating about, but by those of political expedience. And this fact can hardly be disguised under outwardly politically correct appeals to ‘composure and de-escalation’," the NATO ambassador said.

"This ‘shadow play’ looks especially strange against the background of the recently passed resolution 2249 of the UN Security Council which directly commits the states to fight against the threat of terrorism by all means," Grushko said in comments on the results of the meeting.

"As for appeals to greater transparency and predictability in military activity of Russia and NATO, they remain undecided. It was the NATO decision to break off military contacts, and it is doing nothing in practice to restore them," he added.

A Sukhoi Su-24 bomber of Russia’s Aerospace Forces was on Tuesday downed by an air-to-air missile fired by a Turkish F-16 fighter jet when the Russian plane was at an altitude of 6,000 meters 1 kilometer away from Turkey’s border.

The Russian Defense Ministry specified that the Su-24 was downed when it was returning to the Khmeimim airbase in Syria.

"Objective control data analysis unambiguously showed that there was no violation of Turkey’s airspace," the ministry said. However, Turkey’s General Staff claims that the Turkish fighter jet shot down a plane that violated the country’s airspace. A statement circulated by the Turkish military says the plane’s crew received 10 warnings for five minutes.

NATO has supported Turkey, saying it has the right to protect its territory, but urged all necessary moves to avoid confrontation over the accident.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Ankara’s attack against the Russian Sukhoi Su-24 plane, which took part in Russia’s antiterrorism operation in Syria and did not present a threat to Turkey, was a "stab in Russia’s back" delivered by terrorists’ accomplices.

Russia’s Aerospace Forces started delivering pinpoint strikes in Syria at facilities of the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra terrorist organizations, which are banned in Russia, on September 30, 2015, on a request from Syrian President Bashar Assad.</blockquote>
Title: another 'truth' or excuse
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 03:49:03 AM
17 Seconds That Changed The World - Leaked Letter
Exposes Turkey's Hair-Trigger Reality

Submitted by Tyler Durden (http://www.zerohedge.com/users/tyler-durden) on  11/24/2015 22:00 -0500
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...rigger-reality (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...rigger-reality)
 
  Needless to say, Moscow and Ankara are at odds  over precisely what
happened on Tuesday when a Russian Su-24 was shot  down near
 the Syrian border.

 The two pilots ejected and attempted to parachute to safety but
 Turkmen FSA-allied Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen shot at them as they
fell  before posting a video purporting to show rebel soldiers celebrating 
over one of the bodies.

It only got worse from there when the FSA's 1st  Coastal Brigade used
a US-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and  rescue helicopter.

 Clearly, this was a marked escalation and indeed it was the first time
 a NATO member had engaged a Russian or Soviet warplane
 in more than 60 years.

 The Kremlin was not happy as Vladimir Putin - who was meeting with
King Abdullah in Jordan - proceeded to brand (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/putin-accuses-turkey-backstabbing-funding-isis-sees-serious-consequences-ties) Erdogan a “backstabber”
and an ISIS supporter. Sergei Lavrov subsequently canceled a planned
trip to Turkey.

 At issue now, is whether the Russian fighter jet did indeed, as  Turkey
claims, venture into Turkish airspace or whether the Turks  actually
engaged Moscow’s warplane in the skies over Syria.

Here's Russia's version of the story, presented via a video released by
the Defense Ministry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cs8jdJKSGo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cs8jdJKSGo)



And here's Turkey's account:
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/11/TurkeyVersion_0.png) (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/11/TurkeyVersion.png)

Finally, here's The New York Times with a compare and constrast visual:
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/11/CompareContrast_0.png) (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/11/CompareContrast.png)

In the wake of an emergency NATO meeting this afternoon,
new  information has come to light. First, there’s Ankara’s letter to UN 
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the 15 members of the UN Security 
Council.
Here it is:
(http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/11/TurkeyUNLetter.png) (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user92183/imageroot/2015/11/TurkeyUNLetter.png)

The highlighted passage reads: “Disregarding these warnings,
both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national
airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length
 for 17 seconds
from 9:24:05 local time."

 So, as RT notes (https://www.rt.com/news/323343-turkey-un-syria-russian-plane/),  even if we buy Turkey's story (i.e. if we accept
that Russia actually  did violate Turkish airspace), then it would appear
 that Ankara has  something of an itchy trigger finger.

That is, Turkey was apparently willing to risk sparking a wider
conflict between NATO and Russia over a 17 second incursion.

But something doesn't sound right. 
   In other words, as Sputnik put it (http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030699146/questioning-turkey-airspace-story.html) earlier this evening, "according to
those numbers, the Su-24 would have had to be flying at stall
speed.
" The Su-24's max speed is 1,320 km/hour.

  So if we assume the Su-24 was actually going much faster,
 was 17 seconds more like 5 seconds? Or perhaps even less?

 It's important not to forget the context here. Ankara is fiercly  anti-Assad
and in addition to being generally displeased with Russia's  efforts
to support the regime, just four days ago, Turkey summoned  Russian
ambassador Andrey Karlov over the alleged bombing of Turkish  villages
near the border. "Turkey has asked Russia to 'immediately end  its
operation,'"

AFP reported (http://news.yahoo.com/turkey-summons-russia-envoy-over-syria-bombing-near-142831545.html), adding that "Ankara warned bombing villages populated
by the Turkmen minority in Syria could lead to 'serious consequences.'"

  Of course Russia wasn't just bombing Turkish civilians for the sheer
 hell of it. It's likely Moscow was targeting the very same
FSA-affiliated
Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who shot and killed
the parachuting Russian pilot earlier today.

 In short, it looks like Ankara saw an opportunity to shoot down a  Russian
jet in retaliation for strikes on Turkish rebel fighters who are  operating
alongside anti-Assad forces. Erdogan is essentially gambling  that Russia
will not retailiate militarily against Turkey because doing  so would open
the door for a direct confrontation with NATO.

 Time will tell whether that gamble pays off or whether Moscow decides 
that the next time a Turkish F-16 gets "lost" over Latakia, a little  payback
is in order.
</blockquote>
Title: and now this
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 03:59:43 AM
I am posting many articles so that, somewhere in there, we can decypher the truth.. if its there..
 
Russia “Violated” Turkish Airspace
Because Turkey “Moved” Its Border

By SyrianFreePress (http://www.globalresearch.ca/author/syrianfreepress)
 Global Research, November 24, 2015
http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-...border/5480430 (http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-violated-turkish-airspace-because-turkey-moved-its-border/5480430)SyrianFreePress (https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/turkey-moved-border/) 6 October 2015<blockquote>    Region: Middle East & North Africa (http://www.globalresearch.ca/region/middle-east)
 Theme: US NATO War Agenda (http://www.globalresearch.ca/theme/us-nato-war-agenda)
 In-depth Report: SYRIA: NATO'S NEXT WAR? (http://www.globalresearch.ca/indepthreport/syria-nato-s-next-war)</blockquote>(http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/132166-400x277.jpg)
This article originally published on October 7, 2015 is of utmost  relevance
in understanding the action taken by Turkey to down a Russian  jet fighter
over Syria airspace. (GR. Editor. M. Ch.)


 One Russian plane may (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russian-warplane-violated-turkish-airspace-near-syria-foreign-ministry.aspx?pageID=238&nID=89387&NewsCatID=352)  even indeed have slightly crossed the border [in October]
while  maneuvering. But the real reason why the U.S. military official and  Turkey
claim the above “violations” is because Turkey unilaterally  “moved” the
Turkish-Syrian border five miles south:<blockquote>Turkey has  maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June
2012, when a  Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane
that had  strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement
put in  effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming 
within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.
</blockquote>If Syrian rules of engagement would “move” its northern border up to  the Black Sea
would any plane in eastern Turkey be in violation of  Syrian air space? No one would
accept such nonsense and that is why no  one should accept the U.S.-Turkish bullshit
here. Russian planes should  not respect the “new” Turkish defined border but only
the legitimate  one…

(http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/turkey-syria-akp-buffer-zone-map2.jpg) (http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/turkey-syria-akp-buffer-zone-map2.jpg)

Russia “Violated” Turkish Airspace Because Turkey
“Moved” Its Border


 Russian planes in Syria “violated Turkish air space” the news agency  currently tell us.
But an earlier report shows that this claim may well  be wrong and that the U.S.
pushes Turkey to release such propaganda.

Reuters (Mon Oct 5, 2015 7:54am BST):
Turkey says Russian warplane violated its airspace (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-russia-idUKKCN0RZ0FX20151005)
<blockquote>A Russian warplane  violated Turkish airspace near the Syrian border
on Saturday, prompting  the Air Force to scramble two F-16 jets
 to intercept it, the Foreign  Ministry said on Monday.
The Foreign Ministry summoned Moscow’s  ambassador to protest
 the violation, according to an e-mailed statement.  Turkey urged
 Russia to avoid repeating such a violation, or it would be  held
“responsible for any undesired incident that may occur.”
</blockquote>AFP (10:20am · 5 Oct 2015 (https://twitter.com/AFP/status/650948720343838720)):
Turkey ‘intercepts’ Russian jet violating its air space (http://news.yahoo.com/turkish-jets-intercept-russian-fighter-plane-violating-air-070343861.html)
<blockquote>Turkey said on  Monday its F-16 jets had at the weekend intercepted
 a Russian fighter  plane which violated Turkish air space near
 the Syrian border, forcing  the aircraft to turn back.

</blockquote>Here now what McClatchy reported (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article37739349.html) on these air space violations in a longer
piece several hours before Reuters and AFP reported the Turkish claim:<blockquote>ISTANBUL – A Russian warplane on a bombing run in Syria flew within
 five miles of the Turkish border and may have crossed
into Turkey’s
air space, Turkish and U.S. officials said Sunday.

A Turkish security official said Turkish radar locked onto the Russian 
aircraft as it was bombing early Friday in al Yamdiyyah, a Syrian  village
directly on the Turkish border. He said Turkish fighter jets  would have
attacked had it crossed into Turkish airspace.But a U.S. military official
suggested the incident had come close to sparking an armed
confrontation.

Reading from a report, he said the Russian aircraft had violated
Turkish air space by five miles
  and that Turkish jets had scrambled,
but that the Russian aircraft had  returned to Syrian airspace before
they could respond.The Turkish  security official said he could not
 confirm
that account.
</blockquote>So it is the U.S., not Turkey, which was first pushing the claims
 of  air space violation and of scrambling fighters. The Turkish source
would  not confirm that.

 But how could it be a real air space violation when Russian planes
“flew within five miles of the Turkish border and may have crossed
into  Turkey’s air space”.

The Russian planes were flying in Syrian airspace.


 They “may have crossed” is like saying that the earth “may be flat”.

Well maybe it is, right?

 Fact is the Russians fly very near to the border and bomb position of  some anti-Syrian
fighters Turkey supports. They have good reasons to do  so:<blockquote>The town, in a mountainous region of northern Latakia  province, has been
a prime route for smuggling people and goods between  Turkey and Syria
and reportedly has functioned as a key entry for  weapons shipped to
Syrian rebels by the U.S.-led Friends of Syria group  of Western and Middle
Eastern countries.
</blockquote>One Russian plane may (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russian-warplane-violated-turkish-airspace-near-syria-foreign-ministry.aspx?pageID=238&nID=89387&NewsCatID=352)  even indeed have slightly crossed the border while
maneuvering. But the  real reason why the U.S. military official and Turkey claim
 the above  “violations” is because Turkey unilaterally “moved” the Turkish-Syrian 
border five miles south:<blockquote>Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria  since
June 2012
, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish  fighter
plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules  of
engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any
target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy

and act accordingly.
</blockquote>If Syrian rules of engagement would “move” its northern border up to  the Black Sea
would any plane in eastern Turkey be in violation of  Syrian air space? No one would
accept such nonsense and that is why no  one should accept the U.S.-Turkish bullshit
here. Russian planes should  not respect the “new” Turkish defined border but only
the legitimate  one.

 It would also be no good reason to start a NATO-Russia war just  because such a plane
might at times slightly intrude on the Turkish side  due to an emergency or other
accidental circumstances. Do we have to  mention that the U.S., France, Britain and
Jordan regularly violate  Syrian airspace for their pretended ISIS bombing?

That Turkey is bombing  the PKK in north Iraq without the permission of the Iraqi
government?  What about Israels regular air space violations over Lebanon?

 But what is this all really about? Germany, the Netherlands and the  U.S. stationed
some Patriot air defense systems in Turkey to defend  Turkey and its Islamist storm
troops in north-Syria. These systems were  announced to leave or have already left.

Are these claims about  air-space violation now an attempt to get these systems
 back into  Turkey? For what real purpose?

Notes:

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/10...ts-border.html (http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/10/russia-violates-turkish-airspace-because-turkey-moved-its-border.html)


The original source of this article is SyrianFreePress (https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/turkey-moved-border/)
 Copyright © SyrianFreePress (http://www.globalresearch.ca/author/syrianfreepress), SyrianFreePress (https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/10/06/turkey-moved-border/), 2015
Title: nato rules of engagement
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 04:38:07 AM
Rules for the Engagement of Unidentified Hostile or Suspected Hostile Aircraft by Allied Fighters in the Supreme HQ Allied Powers Europe's Area of Responsibility During Peacetime

[link to archives.nato.int (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Farchives.nato.int%2Frules-for-engagement-of-unidentified-hostile-or-suspected-hostile-aircraft-by-allied-fighters-in-supreme-headquarters-allied-powers-europes-area-of-responsibility%3Bisad)]

Nato's RoE

1) YOU MUST VISUALLY INTERCEPT THE AIRCRAFT AND HAVE VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE PILOT.

2) IF THE AIRCRAFT IS ON AN EXIT COURSE OF AN EXTREMELY NARROW BAND OF AIRSPACE, INTERCEPTION IS UNCALLED FOR.

3) AT THE HALFWAY POINT, AN AIRCRAFT ENCROACHING UPON AIRSPACE IF ON AN EXIT COURSE, HAS COMPLIED WITH WARNINGS AND ORDERS AND CANNOT BE FIRED UPON.

4)THE MINUTE THE AIRCRAFT IS OUT OF YOUR AIRSPACE, IT CANNOT BE FIRED UPON AND YOU MUST TURN AROUND AND GO HOME.

5) IF YOU KNOW THE PURPOSE OF AN AIRCRAFT OPERATING CLOSE TO THE BORDER, ACCIDENTAL ENCROACHMENT IS ALLOWED AND NECESSITATES NO SCRAMBLE OR INTERCEPTION, UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT IS ON A PATH INTO YOUR COUNTRY WITH NO DEFINED EXIT POINT. IF THE AIRCRAFT IS MILITARY AND CLEARLY ARMED, AN AIRBORNE SENTRY CONSISTING OF AN INTERCEPTION SQUADRON IS ENCOURAGED TO FLY A HOLDING PATTERN ALONG THE BORDER FOR QUICK TURNAROUND.

6) DO NOT FIRE UPON AN AIRCRAFT THAT IS LEAVING OR HAS LEFT AIRSPACE. IT IS AN ACT OF WAR THAT BARS YOU FROM INCITING ARTICLE 5, AS NATO IS A DEFENSIVE MILITARY ORGANIZATION AND ARTICLE 5 ONLY COVERS A NATION ATTACKING A NATO COUNTRY WITHOUT DIRECT PROVOCATION OF THAT COUNTRY, OR AN OBJECTIVE ACT OF WAR AGAINST YOUR NOW PRESENT AGGRESSOR.

 
 
number 6 seems to be particularly important
Title: trudeau stopped cdn plANES.. GOOD THING especially now
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 04:57:44 AM
in light of yesterday, I would think that any country that is backing turkey.. is getting the 'war plan look over' from russia.
 
war does not necessarily mean bombs.
 
how far will nato go to protect their red headed stepchild?
 
sadly.. probably all the way.
 
this was an obvious vengeful act by turkey.. if not a complete setup.. a trap.
 
makes one wonder what putin said behind closed doors at the last g20 meeting, last week.
 
he mentioned that russia knew who was supporting financialy, isis and that many were of the g20 countrys.
 
turkey's kneejerk reaction, just put ALL nato members on a major shitlist with russia.
 
we will see russia stopping almost everything to do with turkey..
 
oil.. gas.. pipelines. etc. already there are reports of meat suppliers being denied the russian market.
 
putin will turn the screws.. slowly and invisibly..
 
expect the kurds to be getting new toys for christmas.,
Title: moderates
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 05:03:43 AM
RT ‏@RT_com  · 5 min.
MORE: One on board was wounded when parachuted down & killed in savage way on ground by jihadists-Russian ambassador  [
link to on.rt.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fon.rt.com%2F6xip)]
 
these are the moderates that obama et all, are supporting.
 
now why is this red?
Title: Re: russian jet downed by turkey. search helo also down
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 05:10:27 AM
Turkey's Downing Russian Jet 'Had to Be Pre-Planned' - Retired US General

Turkey's move to shoot down the Russian Su-24 bomber had to have been pre-planned by Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to drive a wedge between Russia and NATO, former Assistant Vice Chief of Staff of the US Air Force, Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney told Fox News.

According to McInerney, the attack was pre-planned by Turkey's president to drive a wedge between Russia and NATO and foil their potential cooperation in Syria, where Turkey is opposed to the Kurdish factions supported by the US.

Read more: [link to sptnkne.ws (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fsptnkne.ws%2FahaD)]
Title: Beware the vengeance of a patient man.
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 05:28:54 AM
putin is not a hothead.
 
his actions and reactions, are well thot out.
 
as in chess..
 
always think several steps ahead.
 
on the world stage, nato allies MUST stand beside the idiot in erdogan.
 
nato WILL defend him, even though they know he is complicit in ISIS and islam domination.
 
erdagon is greedy also.. it took 3 bil from merkel to get him to 'tighten' his borders.
 
greedy and stupid.. is a very bad combination.. throw in, islamic, and its all f$$$ed up.
 
if erdagon is smart enough to worry.. he should be VERY worried.
 
today russia is bombing the same 'rebels' that he was bombing yesterday.
Title: hard to beleive anything at this point
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 05:49:18 AM
[link to youtu.be (secure) (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FMFcFVbmpClM)]
 
this clip appears to show the shootdown and rescue
 
it mentions other news crews from turkey, in the vicinity?
 
more and more this is appearing to be a staged (trap)
 
more than a few reports are saying that the shootdown took place INSIDE syria.
 
nato needs to dump turkey.
 
more and more, I feel UN and NATO need to be disbanded, or at least, reorganised.
 
they have been circumvented by ideals? and governments who have different agendas.
 
UN definately needs to be disbanded. >:(
 
nato MAY be salvageable. :-\
Title: skynews report
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 05:56:58 AM
cy80s ‏@cy80s  · 4 hod.
US: heat signature proves #RussianJet was shot in Syrian airspace.
 [
link to news.sky.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2F1593808%2Freports-russian-jet-shot-in-syrian-airspace)] …
will there be consequences for #TerroristTurkey ?
Title: vengeance is mine
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 05:58:13 AM
Liveuamap MiddleEast ‏@lummideast  1 min
Reports that at least 4 #Russia-n cruise missiles have hit the tourkman mountains   [link to syria.liveuamap.com (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?http%3A%2F%2Fsyria.liveuamap.com%2Fen%2F2015%2F25-november-reports-that-at-least-4-russian-cruise-missiles)] …  via @taylieli
Quoting:

 [link to pbs.twimg.com (secure) (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/external?https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FCUps9lGXIAA9Mkc.jpg%3Alarge)]

Turkmen getting hit in Syria right now
Title: Ra bit more info.. from pilot
Post by: zeker on November 25, 2015, 06:21:59 PM

Siberian Husky‏@Erula1 (https://twitter.com/Erula1)44m (https://twitter.com/Erula1/status/669534110046547968)
#Turkish (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Turkish?src=hash) jets gave no warning before shooting’
 – rescued pilot of downed Russian plane #TurkeyAggressor (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TurkeyAggressor?src=hash) #TurkeyISIS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/TurkeyISIS?src=hash)
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUqpuQpUkAAhpaD.jpg)

       ^^^ Notice that Russians are saying not only did the Turkish F-16s shoot into Syria,
they traveled into Syria and launched from inside Syrian territory.<blockquote> http://sputniknews.com/russia/201511...violation.html (http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151125/1030742094/pilot-su24-rescued-no-turkish-space-violation.html)
                     Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the plane was downed
by an  air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet over Syrian
territory
,  falling 4 kilometers (2.5 miles) from the Turkish border.</blockquote>
Title: revenge can be sweet. if served cold
Post by: zeker on November 26, 2015, 04:13:02 AM
How Russia + Iran can send back Erdogan to the STONE-AGE  without WAR?
Close the GAS
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUsu5SuWoAAU3HC.png)<blockquote></blockquote>
Title: russian responds
Post by: zeker on November 26, 2015, 02:31:51 PM
Turkish Prime Minister ORDERED Shoot-Down of Russian Plane; Russia has now attacked Turkish Convoy in Syria - 7 dead - Turkey says "Act of War!"

- Nov 26, 2015

https://www.superstation95.com/index...lan&Itemid=704 (https://www.superstation95.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=579:schlamstonedolan&Itemid=704)





Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has admitted to personally giving the order to fire on the Russian SU-24 aircraft, which was shot down this week, a Canadian news outlet reported.



BREAKING UPDATE 6:56 AM EST - 26 November 2015 -- Russian Air Force planes have just attacked and destroyed a convoy of Turkish vehicles . . . inside Syria .    Turkey claims the trucks were a "relief convoy" calls the attack "an act of war."  See bottom paragraph for update.



Hours after the incident which destroyed a Russian Su-24 bomber and left one pilot dead, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan went on the defensive, blaming an alleged incursion of Turkish airspace.
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg
© AP Photo/ Virginia Mayo
NATO Fears Possible Consequences if Su-24 Incident Remains Unsettled



"We did not want this situation to happen, but everybody has to respect Turkey’s right to defend its borders," he told reporters, adding that the military’s actions were "fully in line with Turkey’s rules of engagement."

Many of the Turkish claims have already been called into question, raising doubts that the incident was a mere in-the-moment misunderstanding. Adding to that doubt are comments made by Davutoglu on Wednesday, in which he took direct responsibility for the crash.

"Despite all the warnings, we had to destroy the aircraft," he said during a meeting with his party, according to Canadian news site ThinkPol. "The Turkish Armed Forces carried out orders given by me personally."

Given the speed with which the incident occurred, it’s hard to know what to make of Davutoglu’s claim. According to the Turkish government’s own letter of explanation written to the United Nations Security Council, the military gave the Russian jet a series of warnings during a five-minute stretch, warning the pilots to move away from the border.
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, accused by critics of an increasingly authoritarian style of government, has argued that the country would be better served by a strong presidential system
© AP Photo/ Stringer
The Sick Man of NATO: Erdogan's Madness 'Could Provoke WWIII'



While the Russian Ministry of Defense has provided video evidence proving that the bomber never entered Turkish airspace, Ankara’s claim alleges that the incursion occurred for only 17 seconds.

It’s hard to imagine military personnel getting through to such a high-ranking government official, explaining the situation, and still having time to fire in a 17-second time frame.

Davutoglu’s statements seem to back up comments made by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov earlier on Wednesday, suggesting that the incident had been premeditated.

"We have serious doubts that it was unintentional, it looks like a planned provocation," he said. "We are not planning to wage a war against Turkey, our attitude towards the Turkish people has not changed. We have questions only to the Turkish leadership."

In response, Turkey’s Western allies in NATO have urged for calm.
The NATO emblem is seen before a defence ministers meeting at the NATO headquarters in Brussels on October 22, 2013
Turkey Hiding Under NATO's Wing After Strike on Russian Su-24



"What we are calling for now is calm and de-escalation," NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said during a news conference in Brussels on Tuesday. "Diplomacy and de-escalation are important to resolve this question."

This was also echoed by US President Barack Obama, who told reporters "It’s very important for us right now to make sure both the Russians and the Turks are talking to each other to find out exactly what happened and take measures to discourage any kind of escalation."

While one of the pilots was killed by ground fire after ejecting from the aircraft, the other, Captain Konstantin Murahtin, was rescued. Murahtin also denied that his plane ever entered Turkish airspace, and also refuted claims that Turkey had given multiple warnings.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described the incident as a "stab in the back by accomplices of terrorists."  This may not have seemed to make sense at the time he spoke those words, but intelligence has been released showing that Turkey has been accepting into its country ISIS tanker trucks filled with oil, stolen by ISIS, from countries like Iraq and Syria.  That oil has then been sold on the Black Market, thus providing ISIS with over $1 Million per day in cash to fund its terrorist operations.

Earlier this month, when Russia began destroying ISIS oil tankers inside Syria, those destroyed oil tanker trucks instantly hit the pocketbook of the officials in Turkey who have been allowing the stolen oil to be sold in Turkey.  It seems logical that those officials would receive something in return for accommodating ISIS, and so it is starting to appear to some people, that Turkey is in business with ISIS.

If so, then Turkey is now a state sponsor of terrorism, who just committed a willful act of war against Russia by shooting down a Russian military plane, and killing its pilot.

It is looking like World War 3 is no longer a far fetched notion.  The only question is, will NATO side with a member state which has provided material support to ISIS terrorists?  If so, then NATO itself will be aiding and abetting ISIS.  Thus, we in America will be on the wrong side of any war; it would actually seem that in a very real sense, we will actually be "the bad guys."

 UPDATE 6:56 AM Eastern Standard Time -- 26 November 2015 -----  Russian Air Forces have attacked a convoy of Turkish trucks inside Syria.  Turkey reports that at least seven Turks are dead, ten or more injured.  Turkey also claims the convoy was a "relief convoy" and says Russia has now committed "an act of war."   Photos from the attack are now coming in. . . first below: