CanAmPreppers

Aternative Energy Solutions => Stoves, Rocket Mass, Gasifiers => Topic started by: WildernessReturn on March 03, 2013, 09:27:30 PM

Title: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: WildernessReturn on March 03, 2013, 09:27:30 PM
Rocket Mass Heater and Pocket rocket info section

Rocket Mass Heaters are for heating areas and keeping the kettle warm to hot
Rocket Stoves  are for cooking
Pocket Rockets are for cooking/heating depending on setup

.. here is a link for a workshop that was turned into a DVD presentation.
4 DVD set of the workshop, very detailed, very detailed information by Ernie and Erica

Also reference my personal blog and search for Rocket Mass Heater or Rocket Stoves for two pages of links and info;
http://wildernessreturn.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/rocket-mass-heater-plans/
http://wildernessreturn.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/rocket-stoves-when-the-gas-is-gone/

Hope this helps everyone out!
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Gravlore on March 20, 2013, 01:33:37 AM
I have contemplated many heating ideas for my home such as Natual Gas, Wood stove, passive solar etc.

I came to a conclusion on what I will be implementing this summer.

1) Passive solar array
2) Mass rocket heater

Both can be seen here.

Mass rocket heater - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4usXIAoy9us

http://www.ernieanderica.info/rocketstoves


Passive solar array

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW_ga-b0-Gs    (This idea)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXN_1Kf18_I (This size but better insulation to home)

Tell me what you think.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: NObshere on June 08, 2013, 04:40:29 PM
try googling dangerous laboratorys some neat stuff there rocket powered bicycles, stills,rail guns...all homemade
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: antiprepper on July 01, 2013, 05:25:23 PM
So gravlore your going to heat your home with a rocket mass heater? Really? You have ofcourse checked around, evaluated your options, collected data  and lets not forget done your do dilligence utube research, and this is what you plan? ::) I wish you luck.
I will briefly (no mater how long it takes) give you the facts of life about wood heating.
Its work, in Canada serious work, with serious consequences and costs if you screw up.
Heat is measured in BTU's not magic pixie dust.
Every stove manufactuer lists the btu's/hr rating of their stoves, lists burn times either by volume or best yet by weight of wood and moisture content.Either way comparable numbers between manufacturers that can be compared, and best of all that data is checked for acuracy by government agencies.
You show me the data for rocket mass heater......I want weight of fuel burnt! burn time! starting temperature of the structure, volume in Cuft being heated, R or U values of the walls! You never get that from those pushing these things....what you get are Burt and Ernie promotional videos, usually "performed" by those you know would have trouble passing a drug or alcohol test, and who's last real job may have been a decade back. Sometimes the vids are  just of a grinning fool holding a handfull of twigs in his paw, trying to pass that off as having real heating value.
You will not find anyone in Canada exclusivly heating their home with one of these, you can find  endless examples of people in Canada heating their homes with wood stoves, and the effieciency of wood stoves can be found up into the 80%. You may find someone who built one but the only way they are getting any heat from it is parking there ass on it and staying there under a blanket, or in a parka.Lets see how long you stay married living like that !
So that does kind of bring up the question of Why are these things talked about? Why .......hmmmmmm...anyone have a idea? the answer is out there.......
Remember Gravlore if you build one have that as the only scource of heat in your home to prove me wrong, heat and cook with it as many do in Canada with wood stoves and you will make a believer out of me.

Remember,You did ask for a opinion.

Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Gravlore on July 02, 2013, 07:24:17 PM
I reconsidered the mass heater already and looked into a corn furnace due to the way it burns and that all you need is a vent to the outside (no chimney fire). After looking into costs vs BTU I decided against that too. I am now in the process of beefing up the insulation of the home. Our walls are currently 8" thick of blown-in insulation and am adding R-24 to the floors perimeter. +30 and sunny here and it is +21 inside without A/C.

I wanted to avoid the wood furnace because of the initial cost along with the 'time equals money' in gathering and splitting the wood. I was going to put the RMH outside in its own insulated steel shelter and make it a forced air heater that circulates around the RMH and then is ducted to the home. I would like a simple steel box to burn wood in but I have seen nothing like that in Canada. $1500 for a stove isnt that bad but I still feel ripped off when there is about $500 in steel and I still have to purchase the firebrick.

Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: antiprepper on July 05, 2013, 03:47:37 AM
I cant fault the idea of more insulation, however you make your BTUs keeping them is the next most important step and should be a subject in its own right. Look into "larsen truss", its a great way to add serious insulation value.
I didnt think there was anyway to make a rocket mass heater more ineffective and useless but you found a way,
I was going to put the RMH outside in its own insulated steel shelter and make it a forced air heater that circulates around the RMH and then is ducted to the home

Anyone, and I mean anyone who truely heats with wood could explain to you the 3 methodes of heat transfer -conduction, convection and radiation. They could explain it because they understand it from doing.Putting a RMH that is already poor at radiation (thats why you have to plant your ass on it to get anything) outside means you fully lose any radiation that it did produce, and then your loose the only real heat it can produce (conduction, as you cant now sit on it to get any heat)thus throwing away most all the btu's. Plus air is a poor transfer medium, the surface area you would need in ducting....is stagering in extracting low grade heat. The only way a forced air furnace gets away with this is by blasting 50, maybe 75,000  btus/hr at a steel heat exchange to heat the air, your straw mud or whatever RMH is not producing that, and unable to transfer what it does produce through the mud to match the rate you will need to extract it  to stop from freezing to death at minus 20,.....hell it wouldnt  work at -5, but its always a good idea to get that first practice marriage out of the way early, so I guess that goes in the plus collum of a RMH.
I am not picking on you, there is more bovine fecal matter ( hence forth called BFM) on the net than fact so it can become easy to consider as practical whats really BFM.
Here is a thought...how come I am giving you the facts of life on wood heat. I cant be the only one who  heats with wood....or am I? nobody else on this forum can give you real direction.......I guess their all busy designing a pro prepper badge :o Can I get one with tassels, it really needs tassels, and chartruce please!
well, you  dont have to spend 1500, you should though, in fact at about 2500 you will get some unbelievable performing stoves.Dont get your heat advice from utuble or any forum. Go to home shows where you can check out all types, or speak with those in your area who are doing so.
If you absolutly must buy cheap, once a year Canadian tire (not all branches) has a sale price on a drollet stove its 1500, but every year (for the last 3) they blow them out for 699 or 650. I will try to post a pick. Now its not my first choice, but its 450 pounds of gorgous cast iron, you can fit 22 or 24 inch logs into it. I can find all kinds of faults with it but for the price its hard to beat. I put the one in the pick into the home of a 80+ year old woman. She uses it exclusivly for heat now, and there is a gap all around this stove between the cast iron and the firebox proper so you can run stainless or copper coils out of sight for  water heating. Seen it last for sale at 699 a couple months
(http://)

 
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: M590a1 on July 05, 2013, 10:44:22 AM
"Here is a thought...how come I am giving you the facts of life on wood heat. I cant be the only one who  heats with wood....or am I? nobody else on this forum can give you real direction.......I guess their all busy designing a pro prepper badge :o Can I get one with tassels, it really needs tassels, and chartruce please!" 

Can you be any more condescending?  I value the knowledge you are sharing.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Gravlore on July 05, 2013, 11:00:20 AM
Guess I like to experiment. Thanks for your constructive criticism.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Pragmatist on July 05, 2013, 03:12:19 PM
Forums are great places for discussion, which is why they exist. They are a good place to float ideas and get encouragement, constructive criticism or both. While engaged in these discussions it is sometimes easy to forget the rules. The rules are simple enough; do not post anything that is unlawful and maintain respect for other members.

A couple of times in this thread there have been comments that are definitely do not show respect for other members. So from now on it would be appreciated if Antiprepper could refrain from sarcastic comments etc. Antiprepper your   input is valued so please donít overshadow it with inappropriate comments.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: wild_E on July 05, 2013, 03:37:17 PM
Canadian tire (not all branches) has a sale price on a drollet stove

is the the Name of the Stove or the type of a stove? I think it is the name, but just checking thanks
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: NObshere on July 05, 2013, 10:12:15 PM
Drollet is the brand name. You should also look into an RFI wood furnace not sure if they make them any more, or try a valley comfort with a forced air fan( 12v motor) mine heats both upstairs and the basement, even at -40 C ,the burn time at -25C is about 4-9 hours depending on the type of wood used. A friend welded me a grate so that I could burn charcoal through the night. Just throwing it out there for you. Oh right I do burn wood as my only source of heat.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Ranger2012 on July 06, 2013, 03:20:00 AM
Hook a few heat/electric converters on there and you might power your fan, or a solar cell hooked to a car battery.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: antiprepper on July 06, 2013, 01:19:14 PM
Drollet is the brand name yes, just found the manual, its a "Jurassien" and I wrote DBO3000 on the cover "maybe" that was the exact number, or may be nothing. I have never seen this at any Canadian tire store as a regular stocked item. It appears at the stores I have seen it at with the marked down sale price already on it, you will notice it instantly as it stands out from the other "box's", fall and spring is the only time I have seen it for sale, but I seen it for sale 3 years in a row in two different cities. Looking in the book I remembered wrong, 18 inchs is the log length ( mine is up to 24) But I had forgot the rating, it is 83% efficient that is stunningly good for a non cat stove. Again it isnt perfect but it performs, and if your into looks this will fill the bill.

M590a1, Condesending, you have not seen, I save that for those pushing BFM as fact. If Gravlore feels roughly handled I will take a spanking from him (figurativly only), if I may sugest maybe you didnt like my "funny" about the badge. If you cant laugh at yourself.....well your wound a little to tight, As to knowledge sharing...your welcome

Nobshere, great somebody who does heat with wood. let me ask you as I will asumme you know  intimatly the work, effort and heating value of wood. Why havent you stepped up to the plate and called this for what it is? Site after site, "RMH use 8 times less wood to heat your home" "RMH heats your home on a handful of twigs fired once a day" and on it goes... And on goes the BFM because no one will say "the emperor has no clothes" people who know better dont call it, why?

Pragmatist, sarcastic, or pointed? I say pointed. Pointed enough to draw attention to the obvious. Dissrespect to Gravlore, no, he is doing something, just using unchallenged data. Disrespect  goes for those who wont call the obvious when they know better. Does the bar always have to be lowered downward....its so far down (on the subject of RMH) that I can even trip over it.

On the RMH heater story goes, site after site, same song and dance. Look back ten years on internet posts, "revolutionary way to heat your home" buy the book! now its buy the CD, or pay for the course, by some so called "guru" who doesnt know a BTU from a IUD and  is just as proficient at selling one as the other even for the same purpose.

Its 11 am MST, Im making the call,the patient (RMH) is dead........................or is he.......goes back to my original question that no one has answered....





 





Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: wild_E on July 06, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
Thanks for clarifying your position and dry British Style Humour, kinda been accused of that .. a lot myself.


Personally I am installing a wood stove and a Rocket Mass Heater in my Camper this fall. Will see how it goes for me. The wood stove will also be able to be used with the excess amount of used motor oil on the property I am on, so it will see double duty and double cleaning as well, but cheap.. did I mention free oil 3000 gals of the stuff !


When I am done, it is working I will post the info found and how well it works for me, RMH. My RMH will of course not be full sized as I like to be able to move around and those 55 gal drums are big. So I will be using a smaller slimmer style of oil drum (also free) free is good, so hopefully it will also heat or it is back to Propane and using the motor oil and wood supply.


Please post the info on the German model here please. I have seen info on the Russian model, but it HUGE and heavy, not for me in the camper.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: antiprepper on July 06, 2013, 04:00:43 PM
Does the bar always have to be lowered downward....its so far down (on the subject of RMH) that I can even trip over it.


that should have been "can't" trip over it.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: icrcc on July 06, 2013, 07:44:38 PM
I for one heat our house with wood. Well not entirely true, I can heat with wood should the need arise. Currently I opt for convenience and heat with wood some of the time.  I purchased our current house 13 years ago. It is fairly large and I think it a sizable addition was added shortly after being built. Consequently it had a variety of heating methods. The main heating system was forced air with an oil furnace. As a backup there are thermostatically controlled electric baseboards in every room (expensive). In the main family room is a huge brick fireplace complete with dual circulation fans and exterior air intake. Once that puppy is up to heat it will keep most of the house warm for two days in the dead of winter even if you let the fire out. The disadvantage is that it is like stoking the boiler on a steam train, constant work therefore not very efficient. In the upstairs master bedroom which is at the opposite end of the house to both the furnace and the fireplace was propane stove modeled after a wood stove. It is lovely, efficient, clean and a joy to have.

The prepper in me needed to have something dependable, easy to use and preferably cheap way of heating the family home.   I ditched the oil furnace a couple of years ago in favour of a high efficiency propane furnace. I have to say it fantastic, the house is always at a constant temperature and it is half the price of oil! I did not change my propane tank for a larger one.  Instead I added a second larger tank. Now I have enough propane stored that would see me through the worse three months of winter.

 I also added a high efficiency wood stove at the fat end of the house. Yes it is a Drolet! I only use seasoned wood so its output is about 75000 BTU/hr. although even without seasoned wood I can count on over 68000 BTU/hr. The maximum log size is about 20Ē which is no problem as I cut and split my own. It will easily last 8 hours if need before it need s to be re-stoked. With the added fan system it is super efficient.  I have a little over two years worth of seasoned wood stored. I replenish and add to my wood pile every year.


Heat? No problem. In Canada you absolutely need to have a heating system that will operate if the lights go out and the fuel deliveries cease. It does not mean that you have to use it every day but without it you have no insurance that you and your family will not freeze to death after the first two months of winterís arctic blast.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Henry on July 17, 2013, 10:58:58 AM
I do not know guys why making big science of heating . There are so many houses in muskoka that have only simple wood stove and heats the whole house without any problem. It is very dependent on the house layout stove location and air intake. I used only woodstove for many years located in the basement with couple grills in the floor heating upstairs. Then I put very tiny indoor wood furnace just because it also heats our hot water for usage. everything works on gravity it does not require hydro.
There is so much dead wood in Northern  Ont. why to make things complicated .Life is too short.
henry
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Gravlore on July 17, 2013, 11:22:14 AM
What I would really like is something that can take 8' logs. If I am going to use a regular wood stove I really dont want to do all the cutting they require. Biomass would be good too. I hate the maintenance of cleaning chimneys. Just dont like doing it.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: wild_E on July 17, 2013, 02:27:16 PM
Gravs, then you need one of those outdoors wood houses, pipe the heat in with lines into the house.


I have seen some that will take 8' but they are rare indeed, most are 4-6' models
On an Amish Farm and roofing place they had a wood house that used an air pump powered by either a windmill or the Diesel generator, the air pump pushed the heated water all over the place.


In each of the rooms where they wanted extra heating, they had connected transmission coolers in a line, then regular lines out to the next location. They said the little transmission coolers, worked great and the heat just radiated outwards from it. With some little 12v computer fans, you could move  a lot of heat around the room from that point as well.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Henry on July 17, 2013, 03:41:41 PM
There are always options . I rather do a little work ,cutting, splitting and once a year clean the chimney. But the whole system costed me less than thousand dollars or you can have what you are talking about and spent 15 to 20 thousand dollars.
My son in Timmins has the outdoor  system it is great. I love basic things and very simple. The simpler it is less things can go wrong. (Especially when prepping)
Henry
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: JustABear on July 17, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Hello Henry and welcome. Glad to see you here. Looking forward to learning and sharing with you.

JAB
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Gravlore on July 17, 2013, 08:30:57 PM
This year I think we will put in extra insulation and the passive solar. That along with cooking/baking and all things electric going we will see how much I really need for next winter. I like over building but I do not want a to small or to large a unit. 8' logs would be awesome though. Fit on the back of the truck in lengths and then put all that dead fall in a big ass stove. Perhaps if I heat the workshop. See if I can pick up some 1/4" steel and weld my own crude stove. Tinker tinker.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Siberios on July 21, 2013, 02:25:15 PM
I heat with wood. Brand new wood furnace with electric (UGH) back up. I am about 1700 sq ft plus full basement. Last year I used about 3 cords (real ones) of wood. My neighbour has a 3,000 sqft home and heated it with the outside furnace. He used about 12-15 cords of wood (real ones) His wood is cut into 24" lengths and his wife has to struggle with it when he's gone. He ends up burning a lot of wood for nothing as he has to keep it humping to keep the water hot. I have the luxury of letting my fire go out. I get my heat faster than he does as my furnace is pushing the hot air right away. His is limited to the temp of the water. I can (and will likely this fall) add coils inside to help preheat my hot water tank.
I agree with Antiprepper when he says why go to all that bother when the wheel has already been invented.
As far as work to feed my furnace, not really a lot of time is involved. 5 or 6 days if the weather cooperates and like they say for heating with wood... It warms you 3 or 4 times by the time it's being burned"
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Ranger2012 on July 22, 2013, 01:18:27 PM
WHY BOTHER showing different means of heating?, because we are here to teach people how to make a heating system that can be made from scratch. What happens when TSHTF, and people buy everything in site and then there is nothing left that wont cost you your first born and your left arm to buy. We teach people alternate means for those who don't have what they need. Also heaters that don't require most of there time searching for wood when they could be searching for food. A wood stove is great, but most of them are not fuel efficient. The rocket mass heaters work in the same way that the ceramic heaters in Europe work, they stores heat and has a slow release throughout the day and not all at once. If built right they will only use 1 cubic foot of wood for a 12/24 hr. period heating 3000 cu/ft.
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Ranger2012 on July 25, 2013, 05:50:51 PM
Just saw this site, the Gentleman has a very good design from my stand point. Some metal working skills required, but over all a skill level of 3/5. Very well thought out, but could use a clean out grate, and a cool air damper.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ZeroFossilFuel?feature=watch
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: Mountainman on March 08, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
Howdy All,

Is this picture an accurate understanding of how a Rocket Mass Heater works??

(http://www.inspirationgreen.com/assets/images/Blog-Building/Rocket%20Heater/nicodermus.jpg)

http://www.inspirationgreen.com/assets/images/Blog-Building/Rocket%20Heater/nicodermus.jpg (http://www.inspirationgreen.com/assets/images/Blog-Building/Rocket%20Heater/nicodermus.jpg)

MM
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: wild_E on March 08, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
Hey there MM,
follow the links on my two blog posts for Rocket Mass Heaters and Rocket Stoves. Look also in there for the Pocket Rocket, excellent smaller heating devices for smaller spaces. Note for the Pocket Rocket, a base inside and around the bottom will make it much safer !


http://wildernessreturn.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/rocket-mass-heater-plans/


http://wildernessreturn.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/rocket-stoves-when-the-gas-is-gone/
Title: Re: Rocket Mass Heater info
Post by: zeker on May 15, 2014, 05:00:30 PM
rocket mass heaters can be built with minimal modern conveniences. no need for cement mixer. mix by foot power.
 
in the case of my outdoor oven, using a cement mixer was not possible to mix the clay/sand/straw, and mortar.
 
it was the most exercise I had had in over a yr. but it went very well.