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Offline zeker

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should be a prepper's anthem
« on: December 04, 2014, 10:38:48 AM »
old read, but well worth  remembering
 
never surrender "awesome"      <blockquote>http://www.survivalblog.com/2012/01/...esolution.html


January 1, 2012 5:00 AM


“"Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense"……..Winston Churchill, Oct 29, 1941


I do not know the author of the following article but he has a point. Surrender is not an option and this article make a good case for that position.
The Phases of Surrender



The first phase of surrender is failing to be armed, trained and committed to fight. We are prepared to surrender when we are unprepared to resist.


The second phase of surrender is failing to be alert. You must see trouble coming in order to have time to respond. The warning may be less than one second but it will be there and it must be recognized and acted upon immediately.


The Third phase of surrender is giving up your weapons.


The last phase of surrender is up to the monsters who have taken control of your life and perhaps the lives of your loved ones. The last phase of surrender is out of your hands.
Surrender during war



During the American Revolution 12,000 Colonists captured by the British died in captivity on prison ships, while only 8,000 died in battle. Had the 12,000 who surrendered continued to fight many would have survived and they could have done great damage to the British and likely shortened the war.
Civil War prisoners were treated so badly that some 50,000 died in captivity. More Americans have been killed by Americans than by any foreign army in any war. Six hundred eighteen thousand (618,000) Americans died in the Civil War.


As many as 18,000 captured American and Filipino prisoners died or were murdered at the hands of the Japanese during the six days of the "Bataan Death March." Had most of these soldiers slipped into the jungle and fought as guerrillas they could have tied up elements of the Japanese Army for months or years and perhaps more of them would have survived the war.


Of the Americans who actually reached Japanese prison camps during the war, nearly 50,000 died in captivity. That is more than 10 percent of all the American military deaths in the entire war in both the Pacific and European theaters combined.
In addition to the 50,000 captured Americans who died in Japanese prison camps an additional 20,000 were murdered before reaching a prison camp. If those 70,000 Americans had continued to fight, they could have provided time for the United States to build and maneuver its forces, perhaps shortening the war and saving even more lives. Some of them would have likely survived the war. If they had all died in battle their fate would have been no worse.


During the early stages of the Battle of the Bulge American soldiers were massacred by the German troops who captured them.
During the Vietnam conflict many American Prisoners Of War were tortured daily for years by the Communist North Vietnamese. Many Americans died during the process. Only Officers (Aviators) held in North Vietnam were ever repatriated. Enlisted Americans captured in South Viet Nam were routinely tortured, mutilated and murdered by the Communists. As a combat soldier and knowing my fate should I be captured, I was committed to fighting to the death. I made specific plans to force the enemy to kill me rather than allow myself to be captured.


In recent years, American troops captured by Islamic terrorists groups have virtually all been tortured and murdered in gruesome fashion. If I were fighting in the Middle East, I would make a similar vow and plan to fight to the death. Under no circumstances would I allow myself to be captured by our Islamic enemies.
Death by Government



R.J. Rummel, who wrote the book, "Death by Government" states that prior to the 20th Century; 170 million civilians were murdered by their own governments. Historians tell us that during the 20th Century perhaps as many as 200 million civilians were murdered by their own governments.
Some of the Nations where the mass murder of civilians occurred during the 20th Century include Russia, Ukraine, Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, The Congo, Uganda, Armenia, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Nigeria, Laos, China, Cuba, Manchuria, Iraq, Iran, Biafra, Rwanda and many others. The slaughter of civilians by governments appears to be as common as not.
Most of these slaughters were only made possible by disarming the victims before killing them. Had these people resisted, their fate would have been no worse and perhaps better. Resistance is much more difficult after the government has already taken the means of resistance away from the people. Planned genocide has been the primary reason for weapon confiscation throughout history.


Jews and others who surrendered to the Nazis were murdered in slave labor camps by the millions. Had all the Jews in Europe resisted when the Nazis started rounding them up they could have made the Nazis pay an enormous price for the holocaust. The fact that Hitler confiscated guns in 1936 made resistance far less feasible.
Had the Jews in Germany resisted, the outcome may have been the same but the world would have learned about the holocaust years earlier and may have intervened. Most people would prefer to die fighting and trying to kill their oppressor, than be taken off to a death camp and starved to death or murdered in a gas chamber.


William Ayers, former leader of the Terrorist organization The Weather Underground, and close friend of Barack Obama, told his followers in the Weather Underground, “When we (Communist Revolutionaries) take over the United States, we will have to kill 25 million Americans.” He was referring to those who would never submit to a Communist takeover. Those who would refuse to deny and reject the Constitution would have to be murdered. If this sounds impossible, remember that Genocide by Government was the leading cause of death in the last Century.


Surrendering to Criminals



The Onion Field Murder in California was a wake up call to Law Enforcement Officers everywhere. On March 9, 1963, two Los Angeles Police Department officers were taken prisoner by two criminals. The Officers submitted to capture and gave up their weapons.
They were driven to an onion field outside of Bakersfield.


One Officer was murdered while the other Officer managed to escape in a hail of gunfire. The surviving Officer suffered serious psychological case, having been unable to save his partner. As a result of this incident, the LAPD policy became, “You will fight no matter how bad things are.” “You will never ever surrender your weapons or yourself to a criminal.”
Consider the Ogden, Utah record store murders. Read the book if you do not know the story. The manner in which the criminals murdered their young victims cannot be described here. Resistance might have been futile. Compliance was definitely and absolutely futile.


The courts in this country have ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. Why do Law Enforcement Officials always tell civilians not to resist a criminal, while they tell their Officers to always resist and never surrender? Police administrators fear being sued by a civilian victim who gets hurt resisting. Furthermore, the police, like all government agencies derive their power by fostering dependence.


According to Professor John Lott's study on the relationship between guns and crime, a victim who resists with a firearm is less likely to be hurt or killed than a victim who cooperates with his attacker. His book is titled "More Guns, Less Crime."


The Doctor and his family in Connecticut complied and cooperated, meeting every demand of the home invasion robbers to whom they had surrendered. The Doctors wife and daughters were tortured, raped, doused with gasoline and burned alive. How did surrender and cooperation work out for them?
In another home invasion robbery, a kindly couple with 9 “adopted, special needs children,” surrendered to the robbers. The victims opened their safe and did not resist in any way. When the robbers where finished ransacking the home and terrifying the children, they shot both parents in the head several times before leaving. How did surrender and complete cooperation work out for them?


Handing over your life by surrendering to someone who is in the process of committing a violent crime against you is a form of suicide. Some survive but many do not. The monster gets to decide for you.


We have heard brutalized victims say, "The robber said that he would not hurt us if we cooperated." Why would you believe anything that someone who is committing a crime against you says? He will be lying if he speaks. As we say in law enforcement, “If a criminal’s lips are moving while he is speaking, he is lying.” Criminals by definition are dishonest and should never be trusted or believed.


You have no doubt heard friends say, I would not resist a criminal, after all why would he kill me? This is stupid and naive. In law enforcement, we call these people “Victims by Choice” (VBC). There could be a long list of reasons why a criminal would kill you despite your cooperation.
You may be of a different race, thus a different tribe. Only members of his tribe are actually human in his mind. He may feel hatred toward you because you have more than he does. Gratification from being in a position of total power is reason enough for some.


Criminals are sometimes members of a Satanic Cult who worship death such as the “Night Stalker” in California. Eliminating a potential witness is often cited as a reason to kill a victim. Sometimes criminals simply enjoy causing suffering and death. There are people who are in fact, pure evil. I have heard criminals say, “I killed her just to watch her die.”
A victim who begs for mercy can give his attacker a tremendous feeling of power which many criminals seem to enjoy. You cannot expect mercy from someone who does not know what mercy is.
Resist!



We each have a duty to ourselves, our loved ones, our neighbors, our community, our city, our state and our country to resist criminals. Reasoning with a thug who believes that his failures are because of people just like you is not likely to be helpful. Pleading with a terrorist who has been taught from birth that his salvation depends on murdering people like you is a doomed plan. Resist!


Resist! His gun may not be real. After you are tied up it will not matter. His gun may not be loaded. After you are tied up it will not matter. He may not know how to operate his gun. After you are tied up it will not matter. Resist!


Statistically if you run and your assailant shoots at you he will miss. Statistically if you run and he shoots and hits you, you will not die. Bad guys shooting at the police miss 90 percent of the time. The odds are on your side. Better to die fighting in place than to be tied up, doused with gasoline and burned alive. There are things worse than death. Surrender to a



criminal or a terrorist and you will learn what they are. Resist!


If you resist with a commitment to win you may well prevail, especially if you are armed and trained. If you lose it is still better to die fighting in place than to be taken prisoner and have your head cut off with a dull knife while your screams gurgle through your own blood as we have witnessed on numerous videos from the Middle East, brought to us by the “Islamic practitioners of peace.”



Some who have refused to surrender.


History is filled with brave people who refused to surrender. Some of these men and woman have won their battles despite what seemed to be insurmountable odds. Others have gone down fighting and avoided being tortured to death. Some fought to the death to help or save others. Many have fought to the death for an idea or a belief.
When General Santa Ana (also the President of Mexico at the time) ordered 180 "Texacans" to surrender the Alamo, Col. Travis answered with “a cannon shot and a rebel yell.” Eventually General Santa Ana was able to build his troop strength to ten thousand. The Mexicans then swarmed the defenders and killed them all.
The battle of the Alamo delayed the Mexican Army long enough for Sam Houston to build his Texacan Army, which met and defeated the Mexican Army and captured General Santa Ana. General Santa Ana traded Texas for his life and the sacrifices of the Alamo defenders changed history.
Frank Luke was a heroic aviator in WWI. Shot down and wounded he refused to surrender when confronted by a German patrol. He killed 4 German soldiers with his 1911 Pistol before being killed. Luke was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.


When his unit was pinned down by German Machine Guns and all of the Officers and non commissioned officers in his company were killed or wounded, Alvin York never considered surrendering. Instead, he attacked hundreds of German soldiers killing about 25 with his rifle and pistol and then captured 132 others by himself!
Most of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto (Poland) surrendered to the German Army. They were taken off to death camps and murdered. Between 400 and 1,000 Jews refused to surrender and armed with only a few pistols, revolvers and rifles, they held off the German Army for three months before dying in battle.


During the “Battle of the Bulge,” the 101st Airborne was surrounded by the German Army and ordered to surrender. Faced with overwhelming odds, the Commanding Officer of the 101st sent this reply to the Germans. "Nuts." The Americans refused to surrender and they stopped the German advance. Most of the Americans troops survived.


On Sept 2, 2010, 40 armed criminals took over and robbed a train in India. Some of the robbers had guns, others used knives and clubs. When they began to disrobe an 18 year old girl for the purpose of gang raping her, one of the passengers decided to fight. He was a 35 year old retired Gurkha soldier. He drew his Khukasri knife and attacked the 40 robbers. He killed three of the robbers and wounded 8 more despite his being wounded in this 20 minute fight. The remaining criminals fled for their lives leaving their stolen loot and eleven comrades dead or wounded on the floor of the train. The eight wounded robbers were arrested.


How does one man defeat 40? How does he summon the courage to fight such odds? He utilized all of the Principles of Personal Defense: Alertness, Decisiveness, Aggressiveness, Speed, Coolness, Ruthlessness, and Surprise. He was skilled in the use of his weapon. Most importantly, He refused to be a victim and allow evil to triumph!
If this one inspirational soldier can defeat 40 opponents using his knife, it would seem that we should all be able to defeat a group of armed criminals by using our firearms if we are professionally trained as was this heroic Gurkha soldier.

Final thoughts
How will you respond if you are confronted by evil as some of us have been in the past and some of us will be in the future? If you have not decided ahead of time what you will do, you will likely do nothing. Those who fight back often win and survive. Those who surrender never win and often die a horrible death. Have you made your decision? Remember, no decision is a decision to do nothing


</blockquote>
of all the things I,ve lost.. I miss my mind, the most

Offline JustABear

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2014, 11:14:10 AM »
The article is good... as far as it goes. What I don't like about it is the idea that no matter what you should fight. In some instances this is good advice in others it is just stupid. In order to fight you have to be physically and mentally fit. You also have to have the means to fight. The majority of the soldiers who surrendered on Bataan were malnourished, diseased, mentally and physically beaten, wounded and without weapons or ammunition to continue the fight. To state they should have gone into the jungle to continue the fight has no basis in reality. IF they had done so more of them would have died than did in captivity. It is fine to say that you will make the enemy kill you and will never be taken alive, yet the reality is much different once it confronts you. Do you have family? People you love and care about? Other members of your group? What will happen to them if you don't surrender? Will they suffer for your ideal? You may be wounded or unable to resist and be captured. Another way to view surrender is that you then cause a drain on the enemy's logistics train. They have to house you, feed you, guard you and this all takes resources away from the sharp end. Even if conditions are horrendous for you, it still uses up their resources. There is great wisdom in the old adage, "Live to fight another day". As a prisoner you can continue that fight, albeit on a different level. So long as you draw breath you can resist. Once you are dead you are fertilizer.

Another part of this article deals with resisting to the death for a purpose and resistance in the heat of battle ( emotion). Yes, many times one person can make a difference and overwhelm a situation or cause damage and effect well beyond the expected capability. These events and stories can be very inspiring. What you don't read about in most cases is the soldiers who ultimately lose it and charge the machine gun nest. If they are successful in taking it out they are hailed as a hero. If they fail the survivors will ask, " What was he thinking". It is all about perception as well as the end result. Similar to the person who invests all their money in a marginal scheme, if they make it big they are the next financial wizard. If they fail they are seen as a fool.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 11:21:47 AM by JustABear »
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Offline zeker

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2014, 11:34:39 AM »
JAB..
you mention the soldier rushing the machine gun nest.. not 5 min ago I was reading about that very scenario.
 
the point was.. that youth has so much exhuberance and  age has too much thought.
 
the author was stating that if he  ordered a 35 yr old to charge the nest, the elder would be thinking 'too much' , but an 18 yr old would do it with nary a second thought..
 
the young are the cannon fodder of those who would never know  honor or  even care.
 
each situation is different, but in the case of home invasion, aquiescence, can be worse than the crime itself.
 
rambo was fictional.
murder, rape, and mayhem, are reality.
 
 
 
we all have to die sometime.
 
 
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Offline JustABear

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2014, 11:50:15 AM »
The major difference between the 18yo and the 35 yo is that the 18yo believes in their own invincibility. That is the reason so many young people die from high risk events. They don't see or believe the real consequences. Example. If you have a room with 100 young men, soldiers, and they are being briefed on a high risk mission where they are told that only maybe 5 out of the 100 are expected to survive, ALL of them will look around and think, " I'll really miss those guys". They don't believe it will be them. Yes, in some circumstances you have to fight to the end. To state that is generally the ONLY course as the article did is folly.
THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS... ONLY OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOLUTIONS

JAB

Offline Mountainman

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 12:36:37 PM »
Zeker,

Please PM a link to the original article. The link does work at this time.

Thanks,

MM.

Offline Doersall

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 11:20:01 AM »
Zeker


If I have read this vomit correctly?  You are a Vietnam Vet and an ex-law enforcement officer.   " As a combat soldier ...... I was committed to fighting to the death ........... I made specific plans ..........


As a law enforcement officer ........ I have heard criminals say, "I killed her just to watch her die".  A Johnny Cash song?


Is this you or part of some article.  If it was an article than it was not quoted.  I am confused.


I have known both Military and Police officers in goodly numbers.   You don't sound like nor feel like any I have known.  If I am wrong than my heart goes out to you in a big way.  If what I feel is true than I hope you get some help ............ you are in need, either way.


I tried to call up the article but it didn't work.






Offline Greenguy

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 06:57:37 PM »
Let's try not to personally attack posters.  The greatness of this forum is due in no small part to our ability to share ideas freely.   

Offline Henry

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 07:48:13 PM »
Doersall  I read your posting today and i have to agree with you " YOU ARE CONFUSED" you are VERY, VERY confused . This is prepper site where we exchange ideas and opinions. This site is not for you you need help.
Henry

Offline zeker

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2015, 06:48:39 AM »
I like the old ADAGE
 
if you cant find sumtin nice to say (about someone) dont say nuthin at all.
 
sry cant find the original link. it was a long way back.
 
I post things that interest me and MAY interest others. even if its just to show another point of veiw so that we can hone our insights and perspectives.
 
I dont post on what I wish would happen.. or what I think will happen.. or what i want to happen.
 
if there are those who disagree with me .. fine. I have no problem with that.
 
what a crappy world we would be if we all had the same ideas.
 
as for someone not liking my posts..
 
there aint no piano tied to anyones arse (or finger) to make them click.
 
take what you need and leave the rest
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Offline zeker

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 06:53:23 AM »
I posted the article dec 2014
 
the link was from 2012.
 
I am sorry that the other forum deleted, or moved or...?
 
I,m sure a quick google of winston churchill's speech will turn up something.
 
when I get out of the bush tonite I will search
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Offline zeker

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2015, 06:56:00 AM »
on further recollection.. I posted the article from an article because I thot churchills speech should have been taken in context to the post.
I read ALOT each day and a thread can wander to many places hitherto unforeseen.
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Offline Doersall

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 10:17:30 AM »
Thank you all for your responses.


I sincerely apologize to Zeker and the forum for the personal attack.



I am confused and also scared.  We are preppers because we believe something really bad is going to happen relatively soon or at least I do.


I think everybody has a right to have their own ideas and to speak them ... but sometimes the things we speak comes at a price not only to themselves but to others who may not even hold those views.


I have many friends from the middle east of all strips and they are telling me, the things that have been written here about Islam are exactly what Islamist extremist group want to see.  It is the stuff they use for recruitment and to justify their actions towards innocent men, women and children.  They are a very small minority and would love to ignite a total religious war between east and west. Maybe there are groups in the west who want the same thing ...... I hope not.


It is possible that our government will take issue.  If as it as been said, they don't like preppers.  Could they use it to interfere with us more than they already do.


I joined this forum because I am a prepper and I have been caught off guard by this.  It is something that needs to be confronted by all on the forum.


Imagine having just arrived at a party and you see one of the guest playing with a live grenade and nobody seems to be aware or maybe they don't care.  I can't tell.


You are right Henry ............ I should leave the party.




Offline JustABear

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 10:46:49 AM »
Doersall

We are all entitled to our own thoughts, beliefs and convictions. The statements made in the article posted by Zeker are nothing but truth. Your friend's in the Middle East attempts to blame the telling of the truth for the atrocities they commit in the name of their religion is laughable and disgusting. I quote you "It is the stuff they use for recruitment and to justify their actions towards innocent men, women and children." THEY are responsible for what they do. THEY must accept the blame for the actions they choose and the consequences. Anyone who attacks innocents, be it men, women or children are dishonorable cowards and scum of the earth. I am a man of peace. My life's work is to work toward healing and comforting those who are ill. That said, if those of the world, regardless of their religion, race or nationality, choose to attempt to impose their will upon others through terror, intimidation or slavery and attempt to justify it by blaming others for exposing the truth of their actions, I will gladly take up the torch of resistance and fight them with every fiber of my being. If as you say the extremists are a very small minority, perhaps it is time the `moderates` and those who oppose the extremists and what their actions will lead to should stand up and confront the issue in their own house instead of trying to instill fear and muzzle those who would expose the truth.

Perhaps you could explain yourself a little better and tell us exactly what needs to be `confronted by all on the forum`.
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Offline Doersall

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 12:30:31 PM »
JAB


There is not much you have said here I would not agree with.


A point or two for clarification:  The people I mentioned are not blaming what is said for the crap that is happening.  They are saying that it is being used to help the extremist agenda.


It may also become a government tool against preppers. Didn't Zeker describe in the article, that governments are responsible for imprisoning or killing more of their own people than ...............  I their pursuit of homegrown terrorist does our government monitor chat lines, web sites or forum like this one?


The moderates have no more ability to stand up against extremist there than, terrorist can be confronted by moderates anywhere.  The members of underground organizations are not easily identified.  A member could be your neighbor, your best friend or a member of your own family. 


Have you ever gone to a meet-up and found people you know in your daily life, who are also preppers?


I hope this helps




Offline Henry

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2015, 02:09:04 PM »
Doersall I worked in Muslim country so I saw with my own ayes theirs attitude towards west or better say against Christians.
As for your believes , that is the reason I do not want to meet any new preppers and stay private. Beliefs as yours are creating problems all over the world and getting us closer to total collapse and that is why I prep. Why do not you create new group of yours believes.
Henry

Offline Doersall

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2015, 03:13:31 PM »
I find value in all points of view ......... even ones I don't like or agree with. 

Offline zeker

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2015, 05:01:56 PM »
gotta agree with henry.. you're gonna look long and hard to find like minded folks with your 'outlook'
 
good luck with that.
 
you can always get ahead in syria or iraq  :P
 
your 'friends' over in the sandbox.. are they still there? are did they up and run and leave the wife and babies to suffer and die in a war zone?
 
just so they could 'find a safe place' and maybe send for the family in a few months .. or cpl yrs
 
cowards.
 
able bodied young men fleeing and tossing their family to the wolves just so they can rape their way across europe and complain that they aren't being GIVEN enough.
 
they should be staying and fighting for thier country, not leaving it to tyrany and then screaming "poor me, I lost my family"
 
" I need money and we all know them swedish chicks are just asking for it"
 
the families are left to starve (or worse) because they have no income and food source because daddy blew the whole savings to some smuggler so he could be safe.
 
disgusting scum.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 05:11:13 PM by zeker »
of all the things I,ve lost.. I miss my mind, the most

Offline Greenguy

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2015, 05:05:20 PM »
you can always get ahead in syria or iraq  :P

Don't you mean get a head in Syria?  I here they have extras just rolling around.

Offline zeker

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Re: should be a prepper's anthem
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2015, 05:12:33 PM »
my meaning exactly bud but it,ll roll rite past some. ::)
 
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Offline zeker

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an oldie but a goodie
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2015, 05:24:01 PM »
at a benghazi meeting a young muzlim woman stood up to ask why muzlims are being persecuted.
 
untill she spoke.. no one had mentioned muzlims.

this is what you need to know about your  'moderate' muzlim

http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=chr-greentree_ie&ei=utf-8&ilc=12&type=541231&p=moderate+muslims
 
I am beginning to smell a troll.
 
if it walks like a troll and posts like a troll..
 
it's probably living under a bridge  ::)
 
 
of all the things I,ve lost.. I miss my mind, the most