CanAmPreppers

Prepping => Plans & Theory => Topic started by: Mountainman on July 25, 2013, 10:40:15 PM

Title: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on July 25, 2013, 10:40:15 PM
The G.O.O.D. Plan - Get Out Of Dodge. The revision will include checklists in their own appendix.

I want to include feedback from this group of experts, to influence my checklists. I am not guaranteeing that I will use the items listed, but I will use this medium to weigh items to ensure the correct items are included. I am not sure how to credit the ideas or suggestions given, but I will do my best.

I have two priorities for the checklists:
1) the correct items are on the list for each topic
&
2) they are listed in the correct order.

I want to devise checklists for the following topics:
Here is the my first draft for Evacuation / Bugout:
Evac - Time Permitting
Evac with Group
That is where I am at, at the moment. If you want to participate in this exercise than leave you comments. If you want to use these checklists with your family, please use them. If you want to share these with others, that should be okay too. If you are worried your idea will not provide you with a substantial monetary return, than please do not post here. Take the time to write your own book and get full credit for your idea. If you are planning to use information from here for your own work, please let everyone know what you are working on. There are lot of great people here.

Thank you, in advance for taking your time to review these lists and posting your opinions and thoughts. Like I said before, you are not forced to participate in this, but I really appreciate any and all feedback - positive or negative. If, negative please support your post with facts.

Thanks,

Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on July 25, 2013, 10:43:16 PM
Admin,

Not so sure the list function worked.......either that or I am not a qualified user to make it work properly.

Imagine if you will; that each item on the lists each have their own bullet preceding them.

Mountainman.


...
Edited for you.
it is sort of a pita when you copy and paste, working on that issue. Once pasted you need to go back in and re-edit things. I found that the list is best to give a space in between, then delete the space afterwards.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on July 26, 2013, 11:56:31 PM
Thanks WildE for the tech help on getting the bullets to work.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: rmactsc on July 27, 2013, 12:09:09 AM
Good list.  One of the other items I suggest is a handwritten how to book.  While you and I and others may know how to do many of the things on the list; other people in your group or family may not.  I keep a handwritten survival and preparedness journal available with step by step how to's on many of the basic survival and preparedness things that need to be done; but might not be everyday common knowledge.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: JustABear on July 27, 2013, 02:23:25 PM
Related to marking your door with an "X"... have a marker or can of spray pain that will contrast your door color. Mark EVACUATED plus date and time. Also mark ALL entrances. S+R may not go around the building to check all doors before forcing entry to check.

JAB
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: NObshere on July 27, 2013, 11:24:24 PM
Rmac like the journal idea.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: wild_E on July 27, 2013, 11:30:10 PM
Rmac like the journal idea.
He made a nice post and found some good pics in his blog post about it recently.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: rmactsc on July 28, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
Thanks.  I find the journal idea works well as it becomes almost a never ending project.  Always something new to add.

rmactsc.wordpress.com
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on July 28, 2013, 10:47:34 PM
Good Ideas, all.

A how-to or SOP book is a great idea.

The Painted "x" with time and date is a good idea. Just don't count on your door not being bashed in anyways. At least this time around the RCMP are agreeing to pay to replace doors around here. If we don't get reimbursed I will let you know.

I am still working on the other checklists. I will update soon.

Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: thecrownsown on August 05, 2013, 12:53:09 AM
I think your list is excellent.  I've printed off a copy to start and modify for our own use.

One area we struggle in:  Contact with family.  With a family unit...kid in school, parents at work....what do you do to ensure everyone gets back?  There are so many scenarios...who picks up the kid from school?  How do you check to make sure the other parent doesn't need assistance getting home?  What if...what if...what if...

I'll be honest...if there was a power outage, or major communications interruption, how would you have a failsafe plan in place to ensure everyone gets back and no one is stranded.  How do the rest of you do it?   Though prep'd and ready to go and the house is stocked, and your BOB and Bug out plan ready to go "from Home." ....What if you work in the Sault, your wife in Searchmont, and your kid is in school on the far side of the Sault....and you all have to meet back at the ol' house while still having to get the kid safely....now imagine no communication.....how do you work a plan out?  Then add in the extra variable of a brother or sister or in laws coming from 100 miles away...how do you ensure they are taken care of?  What if someone in your group doesn't show up? do you look for them? leave them? 
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: icrcc on August 05, 2013, 10:31:16 AM
That is why a get home bag is an absolute necessity if you are away from home. Also your plan you must have a rally point for family and friends. I am not a fan of geocaching but it is something worth considering.  As far as going to look for them it would depend and the situation. Provided that you would not be placing yourself, or more importantly the people you would be leaving during your search, you might consider it. If there was any additional risk by conducting the search it would be a wiser choice to stay put and hope that the absent family or friends eventually find their way to you.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: JustABear on August 05, 2013, 01:37:58 PM
I agree with ICRCC in that you need to have rally points. There can be any number of scenarios where your family members and friends would be spread around. If it is the "normal" work/school day then have one site designated and all meet there. Kids would need to be taught the plan and to follow it and trust it. You can't build in for every scenario so in the end you have to decide what your final choices will be. If people don't show and you decide to go and look for them you become as "lost" as they are. No one knows where anyone is. You have to create a firm base and trust that everyone will get there. If after a certain amount of time passes and the majority of members have shown THEN you could modify your plan to go search. Even then you would have to define llmits such as distance you wish to foray and time you wish to be away from your base. Separation and reduction in numbers always result in increased risk. The risk/benefit equation should always be the deciding factor.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Ranger2012 on August 08, 2013, 03:35:03 PM
Here is a question, that many would be troubled by. In order to get home, would you steel some ones bike? Would you have the means to do it, if you choose to? Would you leave some form of compensation behind...Money, gold jewelry? Now I don't expect too many answers to this, as everybody has there own moral factor and will not essentially say what they would actually do.
But think about it, and what would the circumstance be that would be justifiable for you to do it. Would you try first to buy it if you could, depending on where you are, city,  suburb or country.

As I said, think about it.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: icrcc on August 08, 2013, 03:54:03 PM
Barter, barter, barter ... everything has its price. What exactly did you mean by "if you head the means to do so"?
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: JustABear on August 08, 2013, 04:23:57 PM
Calling on the "moral compass"... IF there was an event I would have with me the means to get where I need to go..... feet and supplies to last at least 3 days including shelter and water. There is more to this than just taking something. Consequences..... Are you prepared to have someone dog you and do what they need to do to get it back? If you needed it then so would they. You would also run the risk of another person "knowing the bike"... or whatever you took. Once labeled a thief you will be hard pressed to be trusted by others. Even if you are moving with the herd you will link up with others going in the same direction... at least for part of your journey. If you are seen to be "one of them" then you will have a level of acceptance... strength in numbers.  If you are seen to be a looter then you will be on your own and a more likely target of others who may need your stuff.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Greenguy on August 08, 2013, 05:07:02 PM
Here is a question, that many would be troubled by. In order to get home, would you steel some ones bike? Would you have the means to do it, if you choose to?

I was raised in a good, god fearing home by two great parents.  I believe I have a good moral compass.  I try to be the same sort of example to my children that my Dad was to me.  However, if my family was in imminent danger, I would have no problem stealing a bike, car, boat, bus, horse, scooter, donkey, or whatever other mode of transportation available at the time to get me closer to them as fast as possible.  In fact, if it were a matter of life and death, I'd probably attempt the theft even if it were in use at the time.  Regarding future consequences, there's a saying for that:
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: wild_E on August 08, 2013, 05:29:45 PM
Look to issues in the Balkans for recent European actions.


Looters who were identified, were stoned or shot on the side of the road. People where dragged into the street, beaten by other villagers and made an example of. Almost all who asked for help where helped. Some were given bikes and were asked to bring them back, even given cars or told to simply hop on the roof of the vehicle as it was already going that way.


In times of trouble be sure to insulate yourself from it and do not get into more trouble along the way.
Read the info provided by MountainMan and then condensed by myself in another section on those troubles and what happened.
just my thoughts.


Personally, if you ask I will give you most anything, steal if from me and I will hunt you down.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: JustABear on August 08, 2013, 06:00:29 PM
@Greenguy..."In fact, if it were a matter of life and death, I'd probably attempt the theft even if it were in use at the time."

All I can say to that is ... " Thank's for the warning"
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Greenguy on August 08, 2013, 07:51:14 PM
Don't worry Wild_E & JAB, my event construct was clearly defined as one of extreme and imminent danger or emergency, not a decent into lawlessness in general.  I find your apparent revulsion as interesting.   
I remember when I was young and had been in a very bad accident, and at the time there was a chance I might die.  My father was himself in the hospital in another town and had just had elective surgery.  Upon hearing my state, he rose from the post-op bed (to the extreme dissatisfaction of the nurses) and walked out.  He broke every highway traffic act law to get to me.
I would do the same, and worry about smoothing it out with everyone later.
I don't see his actions as a character flaw or moral failing at all, nor do I see my willingness to do the same.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: wild_E on August 08, 2013, 08:01:24 PM
Greenguy,
I think what your father did was commendable and of a different category as well.


The OP post was on a different tangent, this has gone in a different direction.
One of the MODS kindly separate the thread ..
where Ranger states the differing tangent, and make two threads please. This one can have a different name as well, perhaps Morality of looting or acquisition in times of SHFT
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on August 09, 2013, 08:45:54 PM
WildE,

Maybe this is the process we need to go through to help all develop contingencies of being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and what they would do to get to their family. I do not mind the tangent, if we get back on track of building checklists for different events or situations. Folks are working through an extreme event and it may take a few more posts for an actual checklist to be generated.

On the topic of looting vs commandeering.

commandeering - The Free Dictionarywww.thefreedictionary.com/commandeering‎Cached
Similartr.v. com·man·deered, com·man·deer·ing, com·man·deers. 1. To force into military service. 2. To seize for military use; confiscate. 3. To take arbitrarily or by force.

v. loot·ed, loot·ing, loots
v.tr.
1. To pillage; spoil.
2. To take as spoils; steal.
v.intr.
To engage in pillaging.

My personal take on looting, is the lawless taking of material items to increase personal wealth or the gamble it will lead to a personal gain. Now it was not presented if the "bike" or whatever had a person attached to it, whether it was secured or whether it was one of many laying in the street. Beg, Borrow, Steal. In that order. Compensate the owner, whenever possible. Return to the owner if and when possible.

It is a line no one on here would willing cross, would it happen in the most dire of situations, probably. Does it make it right or wrong?? That would require the deepest of contemplations. If one person was to die because their property was stolen by another would be bad. If five were to die because one could not return in time, is that as bad or worse??

Like Ranger said, this is a dark path to contemplate. Without exploring it, at least in your own mind you will be more perplexed if you ever end up in a situation of such extreme choices. Does contemplating make it easier? No. Does it justify an illegal act? No. Will it cause you to find another solution? Maybe.

Would you cross the line?? Answers need not be posted.

Does this help you develop a worse-case scenario checklist of what to have or what to do to get to the BOL or back home??

Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: wild_E on August 09, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
MntMan,
excellent take on the situation and since you are the OP I agree to let it stay as is then.


Very well thought out answer and take on the situation, so bravo to you for doing so.
+1 karma point for the thread and especially for the thought process you added to in this thread along with the inclusion of something that is off topic and yet on topic.
Excellent folks, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Ranger2012 on August 10, 2013, 06:44:06 AM
Every now and then, I play the Devils advocate in posting a question like this, and in truth, I had to read my own posting day later to realize what I posted. Especially If I did it just after coming home from work. :o
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on August 10, 2013, 02:26:42 PM
Well Mr. Devil's Advocate,

Care to devise a checklist for the scenario you presented for discussion?? :)

I, for one, would love to see it. And suggestions that would follow.

Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on August 11, 2013, 08:19:02 PM
All,

After contemplating Ranger's querie, would you steal someone's bike to get home?, I have devised 3 possible solution that do not require you to steal the bike. However, without the question being asked the need to find a solution was not at the top of the "to do" list.

Solution #1. Get a folding mountain bike. They take up about 36" x 36" x 8", so they will fit in the back of most vehicles. They are not cheap, last time I checked they started around $500 and went over a $1000. The ones I saw were for military folks, and were jumpable. For those of you planning to do some weekend parachuting before riding back home.

Solution #2. Determine the most likely points along your evac route that having the bike would be most helpful. Determine how many bikes you would require. Go to garage sales, second-hand shops, junk yards and purchase or trade for the required number of bikes. Repair and tune-up the bikes. Cache or stash along your routes. Make sure they use combo locks or are in really good hiding spots. Be prepared for the fact that someone else may have already stolen your bike. Hey, we were thinking about doing the same.

Solution #3. Become a leader in your town. Promote and work with the downtown business association, tourism department and your townhall - and start a share a bike program. Have the bikes located all over your town, a bike rack here and another over there. By one method or another control access or use of the bikes. Membership gets you a key that unlocks any bike. Or paint all the bikes day-glo pink, everyone in town will know who owns the bikes. Borrowing is okay, forgetting to return to a bike rack, not okay. Some islands in the Caribbean in cooperation with the cruise ship industry have similar share a bike systems setup. Not sure if they work, but it is a possibility.

What were some of the other solutions?? Bolt cutters and a cordless grinder with a zip-blade??

Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Ranger2012 on August 13, 2013, 04:21:10 PM
OK, a Scenario that is still possible for the next year or so... Say that we are in the path of X4 solar flare followed by an X3 CME. A solar flare can take 6-8 hours to hit Earth, and a CME between 1-3 Days. The difference between a Solar flare and a CME is like the difference between an F-15 and a B-51 bomber. The F-15 is faster but the B-51 has a much bigger payload and does a carpet bomb effect.
Now I live about 10 km from work, I work a Security post on a 10 hour midnight shift, without access to a radio. I normally drive the car to work, as my wife prefers the van (better sound system). So what are the odds that the Hospital will be informed of a possible EMP hit, and what are the further odds that they will inform me (on the lower end of the security spectrum) that a massive black out could happen. Since they know that they could end up having personnel leaving early if they knew.
So my options, if when I do get out of work, (Whether they want me to stay or not), For on a major black out from a flare or CME, fluorescent bulbs/tubes will flare weather there connected or not. How do I get home if my car wont start. 2-3 hours of fast pace walking, with what ever is useable in the car is on my back.
 So what are my options beside the long walk?
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: icrcc on August 21, 2013, 10:55:33 AM
Ranger you forgot to mention the x tray and gamma ray flux at the onset of the flare that would reach the earth in a little over 8 minutes. These alone are capable of disabling communication and GPS satellites.  :(
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on August 21, 2013, 03:10:26 PM
ICRCC,

You always arrive to enlighten us with the technical answers, and then darken us with the realities of those answers.

So, the light at the end of the tunnel is not the end of the tunnel, merely an oncoming training. Sigh........

Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: icrcc on August 22, 2013, 12:18:14 AM
The universe is a truly amazing place. Sometimes we become a little complacent by placing events in the time frame of our own experience whereas in the grand scheme of things we exist but for a fleeting moment.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 02:43:40 PM
All,

I am still working through the checklists. Hopefully, some version of the checklists will be available for discusion at the 2016 BOV Show & Shine.

I would like to post the current checklists I am working on.....I'm afraid they are still a work in progress.


NB: The time available will be the ultimate decider on what can be accomplished before YOU MUST EVAC.

OPERATOR: Home Leader

Tasks that need to get done at home with the family or while waiting for the rest of the family to arrive.

Remember to package evac gear, food, water, ammo & other supplies in packages light enough so the weakest members can still move & load these items in the absence of strong family members. Otherwise, valuable items will likely be left behind.
I think I will put each checklist in its own post. This was the home checklist.


MM
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: NObshere on June 26, 2016, 03:04:44 PM
 Hey bud, if at all possible, a family should have precut ply wood to secure over their windows. Even if it is just attached on hooks, glass is expensive.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 03:12:48 PM
All,

Shall we continue.....

Operator: Vehicle Leader

This role will be discussed from two start points.

IF TRAVELING IN MULTIPLE VEHICLESOnce at the bugout location or safe zoneThe next checklist will be for those who are separated from the family at the time of the event. I am still working on the checklist of actions at the bugout location/safe zone.


Cheers,


MM.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 03:16:18 PM
Hey bud, if at all possible, a family should have precut ply wood to secure over their windows. Even if it is just attached on hooks, glass is expensive.

Thanks NoBS,

I hope everyone is paying attentions to those who are investing their input onto these lists. I cannot agree more.....however, many will not have the storage space for such items, no matter how much they are needed. In a condo complex, they get all pissy when you leave your bike on your deck. Finding storage space for six to eight sheets of plywood will be challenging. I am not in opposition here, I am just saying some folks will not be in a place where they can action such good advice.

MM.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 03:58:53 PM
All,

On to part III,


Operator: Separated Member


If you are the one who is not home when the events starts, here is a suggested checklist of things to do:

What if no one comes to the Rally Point in 24 hours?? 48 hours?? Or comms cannot be established with the others??Know one and all, that being left behind has huge psychological impacts on all players - those who are together, as well as, those who are separated. By pre-planning actions, rally points, bugout locations/safe zones, you give every member of your family team the best possible chance of getting through a disaster situation, alive.

Working and learning from others usually helps speed up the learing process. Sharing how you survived an ordeal, helps others learn what they might have to do, so they too can survive.
I will see what I can do about getting a checklist for arrival at the bugout location, it may take a bit.


Cheers,
MM
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: NObshere on June 26, 2016, 04:52:21 PM
 If possible, have an attendee list cached at the RV And check off if you were there. Use numbers or "handles" on the list for opsec. Also write down date and time of departure, and leave any special notes...route changes, casualties, etc. Like the list, exercises the brain a bit, and helps to add to our own planning.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 05:03:07 PM
All,

This will be the final checklist for the day.


Action at the Safe Zone/Bugout Loaction Checklist:


This pretty much concludes today's lists. I will continue to work on list for the re-entry process, re-building and recovery.
If you would like to make suggestion, please post your reply. Together, we will make better lists. Use these lists if you find them helpful. As stated at the very beginning I will eventually use these lists in my revised edition of my book, The GOOD Plan - Get Out Of Dodge.


Thanks everyone,


Mountainman.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 05:07:35 PM
If possible, have an attendee list cached at the RV And check off if you were there. Use numbers or "handles" on the list for opsec. Also write down date and time of departure, and leave any special notes...route changes, casualties, etc. Like the list, exercises the brain a bit, and helps to add to our own planning.

NoBS,

Again you are offering up great suggestions.

I like it!!! I like it a lot. To take your idea step further, you could use a "Rite-in-the-Rain" notebook that is stored inside a small plastic Pelican Case with a pencil or two. Those small Pelican cases could be shallow buried or stashed in a hollow tree stump, just about anywhere.

See, if we share ideas....more ideas come to mind.

Thanks again.

MM.
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 26, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
All,

This must be bonus day....I have one more checklist to post. This is a checklist of documents you should carry and have copies of. Imagine a checklist that has a vertical list of the documents and to the right of that list is a series of 3 or 4 boxes to check off. The top of these columns will be labelled "Original", "Paper Copy", "Digital Copy" and "Safe & Secure".

The list of documents I would suggest, will include:

Now these are all very important to living life in our society. I suggest making digital copies of all. Save a copy onto an external hard drive & a USB drive. Store in separate locations. Encrypt this information if you are hiding a copy somewhere. This amount of information could allow the finder to steal your identity. Saving this information makes starting over a bit easier.
However, there is more to life than documents for employment or travel. There are all those memories of important points in ones life. Most record these memories in the form of photographs. Some make scrapbooks. While other journal. All of these are important, if at all possible, make a digital copy. Store these on your external hard drive. If you must evacuate by taking that one hard drive, you get to save millions of memories and all those hard earned documents.
If I have forgotten to mention other important documents, please feel free to enlighten me and we can update the list.


Have a good week everyone.


Cheers,


MM
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: NObshere on June 26, 2016, 11:03:33 PM
 Deed to property ( It's in the book The GOOD Plan, You should pick up a copy....LMAO)
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on June 27, 2016, 10:38:45 PM
That is a great suggestion......I will see if I can find a copy of that book someplace???

Yes, your land title/property deed, is also a very important piece of paper to copy and have with you if you evac.

Thanks NoBS!!

MM
Title: Re: Evac Checklists
Post by: Mountainman on July 21, 2016, 09:53:56 PM
All,

Visit either of my Blogs for the notes from the "Stay or Go-Go" presentation. Dealing with the operational checklists for the evac.

MM.